I had a hard frost last night and it looks like I’ll have them for three more. Zoinks. I’ve personally deferred until this weekend but that gives me time to reclaim the ladies’ growing space from the spring weed takeover. Given the cool ongoing and extended uber-cool spring out this way the plants themselves will benefit from more insulated warmth in their pots, regardless. A fun new update is a friend of mine just down the way has availed their three tomato rows for me to plant out entirely. So, I’ll essentially be able to double my population of plants as it is roughly the same amount of row foot. They also have immensely less frost pressure. Nice little early season ‘win’.
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Also had a frost last night. Will be a few days before I can check but I fear the worst.
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Cold and rainy all of this week, down to 3-4 degrees C. I guess this will be a good test on my GTS seedlings and on my 100s of direct sown seeds that just germinated.
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My wife checked and my tomatoes were mostly ok.
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My tomatoes are surviving this cold and rainy week. I have 20+ obligate, 20+ promiscuous returned, maybe 15 cosmic purple rain. And then some germination is happening for thousands of direct sown Q-series, wildlings, mission mountain, exserted, etc’
Quick question: Are the GTS promiscuous returned supposed to have obligate outcrossing behavior?
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The Going to Seed Promiscuous Return seeds I would say are from individual tomato plants that their growers thought very good. Obligate outcrossing could show up amongst them as with any of Joseph’s tomatoes resulting from his habrochaites and penellii crosses. However it is probably far less likely to occur in that group unless some of the individuals who returned that seed were specifically testing for it. If they did I didn’t see where any of them mentioned it with their returns.
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I planted the remainder of my promiscuous obligate outcrossing self-incompatible seedlings today. The ones I planted earlier survived the last frosts and should recover soon and take off growing fast. I planted them all far enough apart that I hope to be able to track individuals.
Also, the direct seeded row of them has emerged with cotyledons.
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That’s a good test! Mine were exposed to 3 degrees C last night. We should get back to normal tomato temperatures from here on.
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We observed a few weeks ago the leaf cutter bees visiting tomato flowers. The bees must be polinating the tomatoes well as there are all different shapes of green fruits throughout the patch. Its getting hot in Arizona, 104 degree days. My husband has been digging through the foilage, its heavy, no pruning so the fruit are protected from sun scald…he found four ripe tomatos and had to indulge in eating them. He said they had delicious tomato flavor and a good sweetness. I dont know the shape, he forgot to snap off a photo. Here are the green fruits…
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Last year I had many problems in my garden especially gophers. Many things did not get to harvest including tomatoes.. This year I waited to even see GTS seeds available and did not get any 2025 GTS tomato seeds.
I have planted some 2024 GTS Promiscuous tomato seeds this year inter planted with mostly large domesticated tomatoes. They’re in ground now about 12 to 18 inches. Some with fruit forming.
Should I return seeds from these promiscuous tomatoes to GTS this fall or would that mess up the progress?
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Bruce, I think it would be wonderful if you save the seeds of the 2024 promiscuous tomato seeds and contribute them to the seed share for 2026. In general just taste them first and share ones you like. If you notice any other traits you consider important or that you think may be important to the group just take some notes on them. Any open flowered or stigma protruding plants that are not self incompatible are likely to pick up pollen from the domestics. That is ok as long as the domestics are Non-GMO and generally free of plant patents. so that sharing is ok.
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Thank you for the details. I saved it to this year’s notes for tomatoes.
I would send in the seeds to GTS, and Im happy your growing them in your garden. Everyone’s input is valued. My tomato patch is totally mixed up varieties with the obligate outcrossers and I learned more about blossom characteristics than I had experience.
I am in the process of hand weeding my direct seeded promiscuous project and promiscuous project descended tomatoes. They are still very small and it has been very dry. I think they have self-thinned some in consequence. My well wasn’t working for a bit but now is. Hope to get some water on them today.
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I’d send you a bit of our rain if I could. We’ve barely had any two consecutive days without some rain here in about 5 weeks.
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I transplanted out 100 mixed ‘GTS Promiscous Returned’ / ‘GTS 2024 Promiscuous Tomato Seeds’ / ‘Obligate Outcross’ / and the (3rd Year selecting and saving) ‘Mountain Spirit Bi-Color Hybrid Swarm’ planties in the last 9 days. I have half of them growing here in my slightly sheltered ‘Fort Tomato’ (An old pseudo settler-looking abandoned hot house I removed the worn corrugated poly off of now and is solely dedicated to tomato growing annually) and at a friends back yard about 2 miles down the road. Vastly different soil types. His on drip. Mine all hand wand watered. He has a more amenable frost season. Onward we go.
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Got a little bit of water on some of my promiscuous project tomatoes this evening. Plan to weed and water more tomorrow. The obligate outcrossing transplants are on the verge of blooming but none have open flowers yet. It will be interesting to see the flower structure- and perhaps cull based on it. The obligate outcrossing direct seeded row looks pretty good. I only have two plants for sure of the (promiscuous x LA2329) x MMM direct seeded row- very strange because the other two direct seeded rows in that garden seem great. My tasty subset of the promiscuous project (Promiscuous (The One strain) x MM). is ok but still needs weeded and there may simply be empty sections now due to the dry weather. I think I have a take of a new cross of the tasty project (My number 339) with a South American cherry tomato called LA1385.
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Hi tomato friends, I’m in 7b in Knoxville, TN, the sweaty southeastern USA where it has been an unusual rainy spring. I have GTS Promiscuous Returned and Exserted Tiger from Snake River Seed Coop (originally bred by William Schlegel active in this thread, thanks William) planted in giant grow bags next to my young but chaotically productive food forest underplanted with annuals. A giant patch of unmowed clover and big comfrey are very close and the bumble bees are bumbling about. Some of the Promiscuous Returned don’t have stigmas sticking out, is this a problem? All Exserted Tiger have exserted stigmas it seems. Both Promiscuous Returned and Exserted Tiger are setting fruit. Should I be checking for selfing? Am I correct in understanding you all don’t want selfing Promiscuous Returned? Can I plant some other tomatoes nearby Promiscuous Returned? Is it ok that Exserted Tiger are close to Promiscuous Returned? I have Matts Wild Cherry, Appalachian Yellow Cherry, Sunrise Bumble Bee, Thorburn’s Terracotta. Currently those all are on the other side of my half acre. I planted these under grow lights March 17th with the cup in cup method and let several grow in each cup, transplanted outside rather late on May 28th because of my own time constraints. I also direct seeded the last seeds I had for both Promiscuous Returned and Exserted Tiger for funsies in early June.
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You are welcome for the Exserted Tiger tomato. It was inspired by Joseph Lofthouse and Alan Kapuler. Their writings sent me looking for exsertion in my 2017 garden which I found in Lee Goodwin’s Blue Ambrosia which subsequently crossed with what I think was Amurski Tigr and the cross I selected for the exsertion and the stripes.
Some of the promiscuous returned not having stigmas sticking out is only a problem if you would like to select for exsertion for a higher outcrossing rate. If you want stigma’s that stick out more- save seed from the ones that do. I do think that many folks in this group would also prefer seed from ones that do- if you are contributing it to the seed share.
Promiscuous returned is less likely to be self-incompatible. The traits could be in there- and if you want to check for them by bagging a few blossom clusters in organza, go ahead. Though I wouldn’t expect it or be disappointed if it wasn’t there.
There is no expectation that promiscuous returned shouldn’t be able to self- that expectation is reserved for the newly released obligate outcrossing strain of the project. Previous releases were known to be selfing or mixed with obligate outcrossing that is both Self Incompatible or SI and Self Compatible or SC. Some wild populations of tomatoes have SI, some have SC, and some have mixed systems. So, all conditions are perfectly natural- its just that we are exploring the potential advantages of SI in domestic tomatoes with Joseph!
You may plant other tomatoes near promiscuous returned. If you wish to share seeds in the seed share- please do not plant tomatoes with proprietary ownerships, agreements that restrict seed saving or amateur plant breeding, patents or GMO’s such as the snapdragon gene purple flesh tomato which cannot be used by anyone engaged in certified organic agriculture. I am fairly certain that Matt’s Wild Cherry, Appalachian yellow cherry, sunrise bumble bee, and thorburn’s Terracotta should be ok- but I don’t know the story of Appalachian Yellow Cherry or Thorburn’s Terracotta- I am just assuming they are heirlooms from the names. I am growing Matt’s Wild cherry myself for the first time- its story finally piqued my interest. Though I think it is only a single stem!
Exserted Tiger is designed to cross with nearby tomatoes. As is promiscuous returned. Planted next to each other, they should cross at a reasonable rate. The appearance of stripes in promiscuous returned or the disappearance of stripes in Exserted tiger would be a reasonable tip off that this has happened in future generations. Though the Exserted Tiger of my own I’ve grown in recent years weren’t consistently striped. I wouldn’t save seed of a not striped Exserted Tiger and still call it that! I’ve long been curious if anyone ever found a yellow one- I have a yellow sibling line, but it doesn’t have the quality exsertion. I made some subsequent crosses a couple of years ago- and those crosses are growing in my garden this year waiting to be crossed again with something wilder.
I think its possible that some of Promiscuous Returned’s grandparents, great grandparents, and great great grandparents were direct seeded in my garden in 2023- and maybe 2022, and Joseph’s in 2021. Exserted Tiger was bred in part by direct seeding and both of its parents were direct seeded. Zone 6A. So direct seeding those two for funsies is joining me in what has become an annual tradition since I first tried that method of growing in 2017 the year the exserted tiger cross was made!