That observation makes sense to me for two reasons. 1. Obligate outcrossing individuals may be a little later because they have to wait for a bumblebee. 2. Much of Promiscuous Returned came originally from a direct seeded grow out of promiscuous project tomatoes I did, though this is two generations later- it makes sense that would select for earlier tomatoes.
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I’ve unintentionally joined your ranks. For lots of reasons, my tomatoes (home and campus garden) are all mixed up with each other, and I save seed back in mixes (cherry tomatoes, red tomatoes that are particularly heat tolerant, and all the fun colors of mostly big tomatoes that are better than average in the heat - we also supply the community seed library with these mixes). That last group includes varieties with exserted structures: Carbon, Rippled Rinon Delight, and a particularly productive selection from Berkeley Tie Dye Green. This year’s grow out appears to include two crosses: a giant Rippled Rinon Delight (based on flavor, I’m guessing RRD x Tie Dye Green), and a Tie Dye Green with dark shoulders (likely Tie Dye Green x Cherokee Purple). I’ve saved seed from these separately from the other batches. I’m still debating about how to manage the seed library stock given this occurrence.
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That is fun! Supposedly even standard tomato varieties should have about 1 percent outcrossing and those with exposed floral structures can go quite a bit higher. Just one like that in a mixture can lead to some new crosses. Following those new crosses down through the generation can lead to new varieties! I found that Lee Goodwin’s Blue Ambrosia had very long styles in 2017 and got some crosses from it which has led to a lot more tomato breeding ever since. So these first crosses could just be the start!
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I saved seeds from my Matt’s Wild growing right next to Promiscous Returned. I saved lots from Promiscous Returned itself. Not sure if I have the energy to attempt a grow out of Matt’s Wild seeds saved from next to Promiscuous Returned this season to see if they have any non-Matt’s Wild traits, but definitely next year. And maybe only the Promiscuous Returned saved seeds will have a few new tomatoes with Matt’s Wild traits, and maybe the seeds from Matt’s Wild will just self. The majority of Promiscuous Returned are super non adapted to our wet hot summers and clay soil, but maybe in a few years they’ll chill out on the blossom end rot, splitting, and general fussiness on super heat then a crazy amount of water all at once our climate provides in East Tennessee. The completely un-tended Matt’s Wild that self seeded in the front yard beds (far from Promiscuous Returned) and a literal crack in my back patio are fruiting like they were made for it here. No splitting. No wilting in the heat. No issues whatsoever. Crack tomatoes shown in pictures.
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That is interesting! I am waiting for my only crossed fruit on Matt’s Wild. It doesn’t surprise me that Promiscuous returned wouldn’t be doing well for you. Just too many generations adapting in Joseph and my gardens on glacial lake sediments in the arid west. Interestingly the local Triple Divide Seed Coop here in Western Montana sells Matt’s Wild so it must do well here. I bet F2 seed of a Matt’s wild cross would do great for you.
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My experience with the Obligate Outcross lineage - at my farm in my valley - is the small cherry types had immense disease pressure from the jump. I am not saving a single seed from this bunch. They are self-contained, howeve, for the most part in their disease pressures. There is some potential in the larger fruiting types and I will save seeds from those. I’ve had immense success with the Promiscuous Returned (from both 2024/2025) and have been selecting fruits from all the plants with most expressed exserted stigmas and taste and size. I’ve been fermenting bowl after bowl of my selections. I’ve had a good year with the Mountain Spirit Bi-Color Hybrid Swarm - incredibly tasty. OSSI’s ‘Magic Bullet’ shows great promise as a blue shouldering breeder (I only grew two plants but a friend down the road let me grow four more. Very fond of the Tigering phenotype of blue shoulder tomatoes. These will pair well with Mission Mountain Sunrise, my Black Shouldered Plum, and Midnight Tiger). And, lastly, I think this year’s offering of an OP Sungold variety is the best I’ve seem to date. Really high quality promise. Wayyyyyy better than Santium Sun.
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I’ve greatly enjoyed my Mission Mountain Morning x Brad’s Atomic Grape cross. I think if you crossed Magic Bullet with any of the round tomatoes particularly any of the bicolors the results would be spectacular in the second generation or F2.
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Awesome! I will write that into the process. I always appreciate your shared wisdom!
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I have also had success with Promiscuous Returned. Lots of seeds saved.
As I said before, my Obligate outcrossing plants (from starts) are behind my direct sown tomatoes. So far no frost in the 14 day forecast so we should be ok.
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I have seed saved of the obligate outcrossing and my tasty promiscuous segregate and Mission Mountain cross. Plan to save more. So far only one plant of the tasty strain is up to par and of course it isn’t in the isolation garden.
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Saved seed from the fourth and part of the fifth picking of my direct seeded Obligate Outcrossing patch. I may chalk this up to a year for getting them adapted to my garden, but the yield is going to be very small, I think. I was pretty hard on them. Inadequate water and weeding. I also went through and culled heavily for stigmas that stick out. Was especially careful to cull any plants with inserted stigmas that had already produced fruit as those were likely selfed. Most surviving fruits are very small cherry tomatoes on just a few plants. Starting to get a couple larger fruits. Frost should be here sometime relatively soon. I think I will send in half the seed and keep half to replant.
I also used pollen from the patch to pollinate several new crosses. I had one cross with a selfing individual, but it was eaten- likely by a deer.
My attempt to isolate a tasty strain of the promiscuous tomato project has resulted in a good but still very variable strain in 2025. It’s now crossed with my mission mountain tomatoes and they vary from mild to the fruity / flavorful I’m looking for. Just a few of the 2025 plants seem to be producing fruit that is up to standard. I also managed a handful of crosses with them- but only one of them with one of the fruity / tasty plants.
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My tomato season up in quebec is over, I have saved thousands of GTS promiscuous returned and of my direct sown population (mostly q-series, some new additions).
I have saved very little from GTS obligate outcrossing.
Over 2 seasons of direct sowing, I’ve seen high variability in terms of growth rate and first ripe tomato. I hope more people will try it out as a selection method.
I really like direct seeding as a selection method. I had an idea the other day for how I could use it for more lines. Simply direct seed the seeds in a cow pot for each different line about 3 feet apart. I’ve only been using it for whole rows or whole isolation gardens in recent years. However now I am accumulating so many crosses I would like to make sure more of them are short enough season to direct seed.
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A couple of my favorites from the self-incompatible line this year. The first is the largest fruit at about 9oz, and it was tasty. The second photo is some offspring of my favorite tasting last year. Overall they seem to have gotten a lot more productive after a year adapting to my conditions. You can see rest on my tracker here.
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I have seed from “Purely Promiscuous 2024 Goingtoseed” tomatoes I grew this year. Nature put them to the test this year and they did good anyways. Didn’t test for self compatibility or check flower openness.
Would these seeds be useful to send in to Goingtoseed? If not I’m happy to just share them in the serendipity box.
I believe those would be fine to send in. Clearly labeled with those details.
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Those are very cool Anna. It looks like they have started to adapt well! I expect my strain to do much better next year with the selection nature, and I did this year. The direct seeded Self-Incompatible ones produced a very small volume of cherry tomatoes but continuously for 7 weeks here before frost. They would have done better with more weeding and watering.
I saved quite a bit of Promiscuous Returned. Do you need me to send it back in or should I share locally here?
I would encourage you to consider doing both. Save some for your own use, share some locally, and send some back to the folks here at GTS.
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I have 50 grams of promiscuous returned seed saved. Some will be direct sown in 2026. Some will go into the canadian GTS program.