# Cold Hardy Chayote with Bur Cucumber Genetics (Sicyos angulatus x Sicyos edulis) **URL:** \ **Category:** Adaptation Projects\ **Tags:** chayote, sechium-edule, bur-cucumber\ **Created:** [August 17, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836 "2024-08-17T11:07:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/1 "2024-08-17T11:07:45Z")
I want to make Chayote (_Sicyos edulis_) Cold Hardy so i can grow Reliably in a Temperate Climate. I came up with 2 ways to make it happen 1. Grow Chayote from the Grocery Store. Cover it with SUPER THICK mulch & hope it survives frost. Plus Chayote Roots are edible, along with Greens, Flowers & Seeds. This Youtube Video gives me confidance it could be done [![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/6/6376742c5158eec77e501532303921ab62fd74ff.jpeg "Winterizing Chayote Roots || Tips || Raking & Giggles #chayote") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQBZyJv_UQY) 1. Hybridize Chayote (_Sicyos angulatus_) with it’s more cold Hardy Relative Bur Cucumber (_Sicyos angulatus_). Recent Phylogenic Trees have now Placed Chayote (Old Scientific name is _Sechium edule_), into the Sicyos genus, making it’s new name _Sicyos edulis_. This means that there is a good chance Bur Cucumber & Chayote can Cross & pass on more winter hardiness into Chayote! If not Mentor Grafting & Pollination can help. Maybe we take Chayote scion & graft it onto Bur Cucumber so that way Bur Cucumber genetics are transfered into chayote with the hopes of Cold Hardiness is transferred via Horizontal gene flow. Here’s a HUGE Phylogenic tree of Cucurbitaceae, pay attention to the top where Sicyos species are. ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/0/0b6e0aadb3a894efc77621a6b35e5d3a0dabf2d2.jpeg) > **[The complete chloroplast genome sequences of the Sicyos angulatus...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9275491/)** > > Sicyos angulatus (burcucumber) is an annual plant native to the north-eastern America. We investigated the genomic characteristics of the complete chloroplast (CP) genome in S. angulatus with a de novo strategy. The CP genome was 154,986 bp in ... I think there is good potential to use both Methods to Make Chayote Cold Hardy! Trying to bend both methods towards achieving cold hardy Chayote! As far as I know, there aren’t any Cold Hardy Chayote Cultivars yet. Another question, what does a Seed Ripe Chayote look like? Can I save a Chayote Seed without the fruit from Grocery Store? Cuz the seed kind of looked unripe when I cut it open, hence why I assume people plant the entire fruit as a seed. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Ascentropic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@Ascentropic](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Ascentropic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2024, 3:43pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/2 "2024-08-17T15:43:14Z")
Its a very cool idea ! If S. ungulatus an annual it may not be a perennial but could still maybe make a weedy chayote for cold climates. ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2024, 3:50pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/3 "2024-08-17T15:50:09Z")
Yea, every plant finds a way to adapt! We grow so many tropical plants like Tomatoes, Melons, Watermelons, Cucumbers in our growing season! Altho I’m pretty sure Chayote is already perennial (At least for 3-5 years if roots protected), just if _S. angulatus_ isn’t perennial, what do you think will happen by crossing them? ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2024, 3:57pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/4 "2024-08-17T15:57:36Z")
Also did I waste my money on buying Chayote if I can’t save the seed from it in a dormant state? I don’t have land to garden, how do I store the seeds? ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/8/82b0d0e6baaa3322e24a0cefb525cb0c9aaa6892.jpeg) The Seed literally germinates out of the fruit without extraction, which means I can’t store the fruit without it rotting & germinating hence why I want to extract the seed & Dry it so it can be stored with my squash seeds. Does drying out the seed kill the embyro or no? Is that what the ripe fruit is suppose to look like, green? What is the indication of ripe fruit? ---
**Author:** ![isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@isabelle](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/isabelle)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/5 "2024-08-17T18:38:06Z")
this is the way you plant chayote : you put the entire fruit on the ground (oustide or a pot) and let is grow roots and stem . To my knowledge there is no way to extract and save the seeds only. You only keep it alive. this one seems ready to start the cycle. ---
**Author:** ![RayS](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/rays/32/130_2.png) [@RayS](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/RayS)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2024, 1:58am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/6 "2024-08-18T01:58:01Z")
I agree with @isabelle . I don’t think there is any way to dry and store chayote seeds. As the fruit deteriorates it stimulates the seed to germinate. This strategy works fine in its tropical homelands but not in temperate climes. Having said that, there’s no harm in experimenting. Extract the seed before it germinates and see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2024, 1:17pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/7 "2024-08-18T13:17:11Z")
> [@isabelle](#): > > this is the way you plant chayote : you put the entire fruit on the ground (oustide or a pot) and let is grow roots and stem . To my knowledge there is no way to extract and save the seeds only. Darn… That means it will die before I can get a place to plant it. I need to figure out how to extract the seed to save because the wild species _Sicyos angulatus_ actually has fully ripe extractable seed from it’s fruits. It doesn’t pre-germinate inside the fruit. This is what the Dried fruit & seeds look like of _Sicyos angulatus_. ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/0/0407c9efb53572c6532002fe1dc28419426cdd5d.jpeg) Seeing how the Wild species is fully capable of drying & having a store-able seed, what makes Chayote so special that it can’t? Has it simply been bred to not allow dried seeds by Pre-Germinating inside the fruit? From what I’ve read, unlike Bur Cucumber, Chayote doesn’t even have a seedcoat for it’s embyro but I’m not sure if this is true or not. I do know hulluss Pumpkin seeds exist, perhaps that trait is more common in _Cucurbitaceae_ than previously thought. > [@isabelle](#): > > this one seems ready to start the cycle. Yes, it already has. This just a photo I found online. The ones I bought from grocery store are completely spineless & haven’t sprouted their seeds yet. Please Correct me if I’m wrong but a Seed Ripe Chayote is determined by Spines going brown (If present on Cultivar) & by subtle brown spots forming on skin. I noticed brown spots on my spineless Chayote from grocery store, is it mature enough for seed extraction? > [@RayS](#): > > I don’t think there is any way to dry and store chayote seeds. As the fruit deteriorates it stimulates the seed to germinate. I see, so that’s the strategy for chayote, Bur Cucumber has a totally different strategy. Perhaps Chayote has lost it’s seed drying ability from domestication or did Chayote’s wild ancestors also had no seed drying ability too? Cuz they Wild Relative Bur Cucumber can fully dry their seeds. > [@RayS](#): > > Having said that, there’s no harm in experimenting. Extract the seed before it germinates and see what happens. I’ll test it out, from what I’ve seen it’s very hard to tell where the seed begins & ends due to their being no “seedcoat” & flesh same color as embyro most times. Can you tell me where the seeds starts & ends? Do you see a Seedcoat? or is the seed just a fleshy embyro that can’t be dired? ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/5/56f0fbc9b4af6470e53a18afaa262fc0fe3b9bb9.jpeg) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/4/46762ee1fb88258481bcd97870297052a6a57849.jpeg) Why is the seed more brown in the 2nd photo? Is it more ripe or just different variety? ---
**Author:** ![Ascentropic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@Ascentropic](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Ascentropic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/8 "2024-08-18T15:00:05Z")
There are day neutral chayote cultivars you’ll want to get. In my experience the store ones don’t flower in our climate till end of October. This dude grows them in your state, you may have seen him. He’s working on a day neutral chayote landrace. [![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/3/3c38b56e079f2fc1faa349a9da1e86e1de32a75b.jpeg "A complete guide to growing chayote") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7T2UDDGzco) FWIW, I’ve read in an article that its possible to take out and store the seed, but not easy. In zone 7 it may already be possible to have overwintering chayote, with some mulch over the roots. Or so I’ve heard I haven’t tried it. Nevertheless, its super interesting chayote is in Sicyos. There are many other species it probably crossed with in Central America already. I hope you try with angulatus. That would be pretty cool if it worked. ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/9 "2024-08-18T16:06:29Z")
> [@Ascentropic](#): > > There are day neutral chayote cultivars you’ll want to get. In my experience the store ones don’t flower in our climate till end of October. This dude grows them in your state, you may have seen him. He’s working on a day neutral chayote landrace. That’s AWESOME! This the first time I’ve seen him, I hope to meet him someday. Very epic info, thank you! His chayote probably would that better, super curious if he considered crossing them with _Sicyos angulatus_. Since Grocery Store ones won’t flower till the end of October probably because they are Short Day. If I’m growing it in a Greenhouse set up like how he is, I’d invest in some in some cloth to shade out the sun for a day or 2 to trigger the short day flowering! Of course breeding Day Neutral varieties are the way to go! Is _Sicyos angulatus_ day neutral? > [@Ascentropic](#): > > FWIW, I’ve read in an article that its possible to take out and store the seed, but not easy. AWESOME! Please send me the link, I’d love to read it! Taking out the seed to store it is my only option to grow Chayote. I have no land therefore I can only save seeds & learn. > [@Ascentropic](#): > > In zone 7 it may already be possible to have overwintering chayote, with some mulch over the roots. Or so I’ve heard I haven’t tried it. I’m gonna Cross pollinate greenhouse method with Over winter method. Having the 2 populations exchanging genetics would be SUPER Valuable! > [@Ascentropic](#): > > Nevertheless, its super interesting chayote is in Sicyos. There are many other species it probably crossed with in Central America already. I hope you try with angulatus. That would be pretty cool if it worked. I wonder which species Chayote crossed with that made it get so big? I hope I can try with _Sicyos angulatus_, I have the will & the Knowledge just not the resources to make it happen. I Hope can get _Sicyos angulatus_ seeds but I’ve never seen them while foraging. I think it will work but only 1 way to find out! ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/10 "2024-09-01T01:37:18Z")
Welp I just find wild _Sicyos angulatus_ in my local forrest! ![20240821_110753](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/8/81009824db2a0119b8fc9ba4d8dc149853b1f12a.jpeg) ![20240821_115109](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/1/1c9dccf35a45a9e876c751636c482547085be4a0.jpeg) ![20240821_114945](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/5/54a2a1519e25cfe087c7a357256fb5cd49672798.jpeg) I’ve tried them! 1 plant was Nasty bitter (Which means it’s poisonous), won’t be saving seeds from that one. However all the other ones were non bitter (Which means it’s fully edible & not poisonous), very delicious tasting much like Squash leaves. These Wild Non bitter Sicyos angulatus has now became my favorite Greens to Forager for, I litterally had to stop myself from eating all the leaves because I want to save seeds from them! The flowers (Male) were also delicious, with a nice pleasant pollen taste & a hint of sweetness (probably via the nectar). Even if the fruits taste bad or are throny, the plant is worth growing for the greens alone! I just hope to get a chance for seeds! These plants grow well! As for Chayote (_Sicyos edulis_), I found out what’s going on with their seed problem. ![20240822_170535](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/2/24f6e42ba3b314f7fd15020592e62c1a891f675c.jpeg) ![20240822_170452](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/c/cb6d9fe2addc7c2115e5847b58e64c0d98fa9488.jpeg) It’s kind of hard to extract as you can see the cotyledon has ripped! ![20240822_165544](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/a/a8bccb0a05ba1e3f6ab3e52893363a6f16e43c10.jpeg) 1 Fruit already had it’s seed germinating. I place it somewhere & forgot where. However the 2nd fruit’s seed looked more promising. I have already extracted the seed & I’m trying to get it to dry fully. I think it still needs more time (It’s been about 9 days). ![20240822_170248](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/7/7b5583ebea3b755298b208cfa5fb0e7b64cf661f.jpeg) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/8/896515df4da364cc9031de3a166513b098246afe.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 8:03am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cold-hardy-chayote-with-bur-cucumber-genetics-sicyos-angulatus-x-sicyos-edulis/2836/11 "2024-11-09T08:03:36Z")
I found seeds of the Wild Chayote & yes it does have a seedcoat! There also seems to be distinctly white & Black Seed types. ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/3/349565ada9681f979df49f143b183c4d674b9c4e.jpeg) Note the burs on the actual fruits, they are like little spines. They do get stuck in skin sometimes, but not very often. Doesn’t hurt too bad, no where near like Opuntia Pear Cactus Glocids. Up close, you can see the spikes of the Bur needles. ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/9/9e80b33f7d7488f7cc93320fe26e8df57a9ec524.jpeg) I have tried the green fruits (Despite the burs which I tried my best to scratch off). It tasted like the leaves/shoots, nothing too special. Wild Chayote is better for it’s leaves/Tender Shoots & Flowers. But now knowing that Wild Chayote has a seedcoat, there’s a good chance that trait can be transferred into Domesticated Chayote & thus allow easily seed savable Chayote. Altho you could just plant the entire fruit of the wild chayote as it’s about the size of a small pumpkin seed.