I concur, beans climb into trees without damaging them. I made a willow rack as a wind block and sun trap to the north of where i planned the beans, it started growing rapidly. But it was too slippery the bark, in strong wind they fell over…
I’ve seeded all kinds of beans this year, it was a very wet and cold year, the snail pressure on them was high. I intercropped with lettuce and kale to divert them from attacking my beans. It worked quite well. As snails love kale and lettuce slightly better and it takes a day to switch their stomachs over to new food, a higher percentage of beans survived then would have otherwise. Another plus could be that the survivors are less favored by snails, so i hope to select for some resistance in my diversion crop as well.
I.m talking snails, because that’s the main culprit in wetter areas, but the principle is interesting enough i believe to be mentioned in this topic, it might apply for dryer areas as well.
Feed the evil plant eaters something that they like better which has a high yield in seeds.
Ofcourse in landracing the principle is to do nothing, but if one doesn’t get to seed increase stage little crossing can occur, so to speed up crossing rates and getting different traits into the F1 we should still rely on some predation aversion techniques
Absolutely. No seeds, no landrace.
And I would add that the landracing principle is to do nothing that you don’t want to do long-term. There are some things I don’t mind doing (such as mulching) that are very helpful in my climate, so I’m not going to try to select for plants that don’t need that.
I did lots of interplanting last year. I think mainly in two variables: growth pattern (mounding, emergent, ground covering, short, tall) and speed/time to maturity. My thinking is simple - I try to fit those together that somehow complement each other instead of competing. I find that reflecting a bit on how the particular plant evolved in its natural habitat to compete and co-exist with other plants help me figure out which interplantings might work.
Some plants seem to get really tall and leggy. Eventually they need staking and all kinds of support. I like to think they probably come from a place where the vegetation is tall, so they need to get tall themselves to get into the light. I imagine a meadow full of tall herbs. Spaces like that can be packed with diverse species, because each plant mostly takes up space vertically and doesn’t cover that much ground. Vegetation ecologists talk about megaphorb societies. Many of my favorite plants come from the plant community, so I try to emulate those plant partnerships. If they grow among other plants, they lean on them and grow much better.
Some plants seem to be really easy to interplant, because they don’t mind growing in the shade of taller plants. Like radish, kohlrabi and other Brassicaceae. Salads and beets too.
My favorite interplanting last year was broad beans and kohlrabi. The kohlrabi got huge in the (nutritious) shade of the broad beans and I had less space for weeds.
This year I’m trying broadsowing mixes.
One very complex perennial mix: Fennel, sage, sanguisorba, anise hyssop, hyssop, levisticum, diplotaxis, lemon balm, thyme, sorrel. Germination has been good (takes stratification for many of them), I can update at the end of the season if of interest.
A few crazy annual mixes too mostly just to see what works:
- Mustard and clover. With amaranth, sorghum, chicory, salsify, broad beans
- Orach. With amaranth, sorghum, chicory, salsify, broad beans
I love that you do that Malte. Very interesting mix. I want rid of my small thyme plants. Too much work. I want a higher growing variety. And grow them in one bed. Hopefully it exists.
I have revisited Sepp Holzers , Farming with nature documentary. It was narrated in French and I watched it with my neighbor. At the end he was very silent and a bit sad. I asked why. He said it’s because he is right with his 50 strong seed mix he uses… I guess at the end of the career finding this out was a bit painful!! But now I need to make it happen.
So yeah totally interested!!!
This year i am growing Chenopodium berlandieri “Aztec Spinach” seeds i purchased from EFN. Research on this plant led me to learning about the ancient Eastern Agricultural Complex of indigenous peoples of North America. This period was before the introduction of maize. People of this era practiced polyculture for thousands of years. The site in Illinois now known as Cahokia was a city of perhaps 50,000 people supported by this system of agriculture for example. When this civilization ended or transitioned into maize cultivation, the crop plants reverted to the wild, but they still exist.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/epub/10.2993/0278-0771-39.4.549
“Resurrection maygrass” mentioned in that article sounds very interesting. It looks like it’s a perennial that grows through the winter and produces grain in spring, and then again later on in the year. Sounds like an ideal grain for my climate. Any idea where I could find seeds?
I’m not aware of any commercial source. I’m trying to educate myself to recognize it. It may grow wild here, this is within the territory of the EAC.
My very robust, 13 foot tall weeds have already been landracing for generations, so I’ve got to add input for the things I am starting to landrace, just to give them a more level playing field. Someday maybe they can out-compete the weeds, but until then, they need me for a partner.
Love the info about growing eight different species together making them all more resilient. Will definitely be more intentional about that next year.
I remember in the murky past reading something that talked about leaving a weed growing with a vegetable, because it would act like a “nursery plant” where the weed would send down deep, more aggressive roots, and then the vegetable roots would follow along, allowing the veg to put down deeper roots more easily.
I don’t know if weeds can act as nurse plants, but I can easily believe it! My edible cover crops that I sowed into my grass were doing just fine until I chopped down the grass around them. Then the crops died the next day. I don’t think that was a coincidence, because the exact same thing happened four times in four spaces.
I don’t know if the weeds were acting as nurse plants, or it was just that the environment around them had changed way too rapidly, but I’ll say this, for sure . . . I’ll probably leave the weeds around my edible cover crops alone next time! 
@UnicornEmily
I tend to leave the weeds until after harvest or seed production has completed. Im in the desert and any time the soil temperature changes, or dries out due to removing weeds, my vegetable plants would also die. I like to mix companion seed in with what Im planting so the row is wider…sometimes without a path to walk in. All the groundcover whether intended or wild helps shade the soil and keep it cooler and hydrated. Ive planted pole beans under mesquite trees and the beans climb up the trunk with ease.
Oh, my gosh! I’ve been noticing that, too! If I pull out those weeds, the crops they’re surrounding just suddenly keel over and die. If I leave the weeds alone, the crops keep on growing along happily. I can pull out bindweed just fine, but that’s probably because I try to stay on top of pulling it out all year round. I definitely can’t pull out tall grass in unirrigated spaces, though. That seems to have to stay.
I noticed these weeds are good dew catchers at times. I’m not sure if plants take in dew through pores. But if so the weeds will nourish the soil micro biome.
They might be in competition for nutrients though, so your crop will stay smallish. But better that then dead!
Maybe micropruning, giving it a shave on the side close to the crop and dropping will help with that.
Sounds Fukuokan. From a foundational bi/polyculture that also contains elements that are not harvested, challenge the unharvested element to give the crop a headstart
I like this approach even in compacted clay. If I throw dry beans into a patch of violets (for example), good seed germinates effortlessly. The violet cover creates a perfect humid microclimate for the beans to hydrate, germinate, and get going.
Hmmm. You know, the more I think about it, the most I think this may be the solution to the problem I’ve been having getting most summer crops (like beans and squashes) to germinate.
If I don’t mulch, the soil goes dry as a bone in less than a day, so nothing germinates. If I do mulch, the top of the soil stays moist, and roly polies appear en masse to eat the mulch, and also eat my germinating seedlings.
Maybe what I need is a living cover crop for seedlings to germinate under. That’ll keep the soil moist, and it won’t attract roly polies in the same way dead mulch does.
That seems like a good idea to try! This has been a serious issue for me for the past three years, so perhaps this is a solution!
@UnicornEmily
Let me first share my experiences with wood chips and roly polies. I had better luck with seedling survival if I set down the wood chips months ahead of planting. Giving the chips a head start at breaking down or composting thoroughly. Im also sure to add fresh worm castings and composted animal manure. I have several areas to rotate too…and can usually give the added wood chips time to support microbes. My sandy soil has been built up over eight years. We try to utilize local imputs that are practical and readily available.
Additionally, I look at a particular growing season, gather the different types of seed, then group companions together for planting. So companions can have over ten vegetables and herbs growing together in a wider row or patch. I personally like the variety it grows well…Im accustomed to seeing the different leaves and knowing whats planted. I can also enjoy harvesting a mixed salad or a meal from one row. I had to use this model of planting greens due to limited space, it really evolved out of necessity as I didnt have alot of room to seperate every vegetable and still wanted to maximixe what was growing. The results are continued ground cover and different veggies to eat. I do include benificial flowers and herbs as well. I end up with a “Kaleidescape” and it has worked well for me. Its kinda similar to the Fukuoka mix, but is selected varieties and companions to grow together. I do tend to grow from seed and direct sowing to the garden soil.
Oooh. That’s a great tip. I will definitely try out having a bed for seedlings that is mulched in wood chips several months early. I don’t have animal manure, but I can use urine to help the wood chips break down a little more – does that seem like a good idea?
It’s really nice to hear that you have sandy soil, too. That means whatever works for you is likely to work well for me, too. (My soil is pure sand and only about two feet deep. After that, it’s pure rocks. It drains fast.)
Yes, any nitrogen source works for breaking down wood chips…earth worm castings work well too, and so does ferments. Somewhere I saw where stinging nettles tea, and a few other teas made from plants works too. Yarrow comes to mind, I cant remember the others.
My sand is 80 feet deep or more and just soaks up everything. It tends to be alkaline and dries out quickly. Everything died until i started incorporating the composted wood chips. I let the wood chip pile break down six to eight months before adding to the garden. I really enjoy green leaf litter with the chips as it will break down quicker. I have to water the chip pile weekly since we get less than 4 inches of rain annually. I also dont till the ground, just keep adding to the top of the soil.
You should also get live earthworms to add to your growing area once you get a good chip layer added. As long as they dont dry out the earthworms will help break down the chips and yeild castings too.
The coffee shops here give away spent coffee grounds and those go onto the garden soil twice a year and all of our vegetable scraps. It just depends on what is available.
It really took a good four years to have nicer soil that grows most everything and starting with plain sand.
I had tried heugleculture mounds but the sand dries out and blows away. It only works in raised beds for me. I had to have a barrier or wall to hold it all together.
Wow, four inches of rain a year! Sounds like your climate’s much more arid than mine. With 18 inches, I figure I should be able to get away with only irrigating using rainwater off my roof, once I have good enough soil to store a lot in it from winter. It’ll take awhile to get to that point, but I think 18 inches is enough for it to be possible to get there.
Yeah, I definitely don’t think growing in mounds is a good idea in an arid climate. I’ve been digging a deep pit, removing the big rocks, dumping in lots of wood, and covering it back up with soil. I’m also trying to make sure the pathways are higher up than the beds. Sunken beds with logs buried a few feet deep in them seems to me to be sensible in a place without rain in summer.
Also check out Native Seed SEARCH they are a seed company in Tucson, with many desert adapted and indigenous vegetable seed for sale. They have growing guides and planting guides too. You can sesrch the seed list for high desert and low desert adapted seed divided by elevation. In most of the seed descriptions is also a blurb about origin and flavor. Some seed is not available to the public. The site is a wealth of information and was one of my starting points years ago. My garden area is considered as the low desert. Under 3000 feet elevation. There is also indigenous corn, okra, squashes, and many others from the low elevation desert areas. Many indigenous Nations lived by the river systems and had irrigation waters through the summer. Im not that lucky and still have to irrigate my garden. The area is well known for big agriculture growing commercial lettuce and broccoli plus many more over the winter months.