# Cucumis metuliferus/sativus/anguria crosses? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussions\ **Tags:** cucumber, bur-cucumber\ **Created:** [August 19, 2024, 2:06pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845 "2024-08-19T14:06:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohananV](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/johananv/32/9748_2.png) [@JohananV](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/JohananV)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 2:06pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/1 "2024-08-19T14:06:53Z")
Hi y’all, I’m pretty new here, and have been working on a few basic landraces since last year. This year, I’d like to turn my attentions to cucumbers. Now, I live in South Africa where _Cucumis metuliferus_ and _C. anguria_ both grow wild. And by wild, I mean **wild.** We don’t need to plant them, they just keep coming back. What are your thoughts on crossing them into a _C. sativa_ grex for genetic diversity? Would it be worth the effort it would take to cross the bitter flavor of the other species back out again? Thanks in advance! ---
**Author:** ![ShaneS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@ShaneS](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/ShaneS)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/2 "2024-08-19T16:51:16Z")
I am in subtropical Australia and working along similar lines. There is some work crossing Cucumis species in the literature. IIRC metuliferus and anguria cross easily but sativa and melo are harder to include in the mix. Mentor grafting and mentor pollination are worth trying. And the initial metuliferus x anguria hybrid is a good candidate to be easier to cross with sativa or melo. Specific strains of each species vary a lot in their cross compatibility. There is a melo x metuliferus cross in the literature but it only worked using a fairly primitive vegetable form of melo from India. ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/3 "2024-08-19T23:51:25Z")
We got the same Goal & Idea, except I’d add in _Cucumis melo_ into the crosses too! I’d Cross _C. metuliferus_ x _C. anguria_ 1st, then cross in _C. melo_ & finnally attempt crossing with _C. sativus_. Use Mentor Pollination by mixing pollens to smooth out any fertility issues. I think you’ll find this super useful! > [@Cucumber (C. sativus) x Muskmelon (C. melo) Hybrids by using Kiwano (C. metuliferus) as Bridge Species Possible?](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumber-c-sativus-x-muskmelon-c-melo-hybrids-by-using-kiwano-c-metuliferus-as-bridge-species-possible/2055): > > I’d Love to get y’all Inputs on this Idea, Have y’all tried it? I feel like there’s a 3-way Hybrid Swarm just waiting to happen by using Mentor Pollination Technique. C. melo x C. metuliferus are Partially Compatible! Confirmed Hybrids between C. melo x C. metuliferus exist despite being to (What I assumed at the time) was different subgenera. But the Hybrid proves that African Hornmelon’s are genetically closer to Wild Muskmelons than they are to Cucumbers. However some hybrids aren’t fully st… I hope we can work together to make it happen! Perhaps even trade germasplasm too! I’d love to get me some wild/feral _C. metuliferus_ & _C. anguria_. ---
**Author:** ![JohananV](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/johananv/32/9748_2.png) [@JohananV](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/JohananV)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2024, 5:00am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/4 "2024-08-20T05:00:00Z")
> [@ShaneS](#): > > And the initial metuliferus x anguria hybrid is a good candidate to be easier to cross with sativa or melo. Specific strains of each species vary a lot in their cross compatibility. That’s really valuable information, thank you! I look forward to seeing what results you have with your crossing. ---
**Author:** ![JohananV](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/johananv/32/9748_2.png) [@JohananV](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/JohananV)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2024, 5:04am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/5 "2024-08-20T05:04:00Z")
So much good and valuable information in there! And I’d love to collaborate on this. I also discovered a native _pepo_ variety yesterday that I’m planning on crossing into my _pepo_ grexes. Here’s a picture of this native vegetable, they call it Marakkas. ![images (3)](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/e/e765bd6d02db2829a8a535a7897a1134cb642c13.jpeg) ![images (2)](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/2/2f80db93f95b44b3f4d63a68087d7d54cfd5c3e2.jpeg) All of those shapes come from the same genetics, which makes me think it will make some interesting outcrosses. It also has a thick rind and great storage, so might make some interesting new winter squash types. ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2024, 10:37am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/6 "2024-08-20T10:37:34Z")
> [@JohananV](#): > > So much good and valuable information in there! And I’d love to collaborate on this. Awesome! Lets trades notes & Seeds. Dm Me! > [@JohananV](#): > > I also discovered a native _pepo_ variety yesterday that I’m planning on crossing into my _pepo_ grexes. Here’s a picture of this native vegetable, they call it Marakkas. What an interesting pepo variety., first time hearing about it. There isn’t much info I could find on it but it looke like _Cucurbita pepo subsp. texana_ due to the way the peduncle looks like. How do they eat this vegetable? Unripe fruit like a summer squash or seed ripe fruit as a winter squash? Is it slightly bitter? What about the leaves/shoots & flowers? are the not bitter & delicious? All I could find about it was this shop website > **[MARAKKA](https://www.herbgarden.co.za/mountainherb/herbinfo.php?id=518)** > > \- The first unripe fruits look very different than the riper worty fruits, are they actually the same variety? If so, I found that facinating how it goes from dohnut shape to worty gourd shape. How thick is the rind? I’ve had a Grizzly Bear Pumpkin that was wood hard, it was like cutting into thick wood shell, unbelievable it was that hard meanwhile you have Moschata pumpkins with much more softer delicate skin outlast the super thick shell. Only because the worts were a vector for disease to enter & rot the fruit. Just look at how thick the shell was on the Grizzly Bear Pumpkin ![20240115_133849 Grizzly Bear Pumpkin](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/1/100b1a7d278c884f942ccc68d65c15360f861fec.jpeg) ![20240115_125846 Grizzly Bear Pumpkin](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/0/02880aaa6159137d968b54f99f1943c8176d28ab.jpeg) ![20231122_112713 Grizzly Bear Squash](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/8/820d03b3f672a70b7d78b5930e6adca694f8a66d.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![JohananV](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/johananv/32/9748_2.png) [@JohananV](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/JohananV)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 11:52am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/7 "2024-08-26T11:52:39Z")
I’m going to answer you based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge about these, none of which is first-hand (Yet!!!). > [@VeggieSavage](#): > > The first unripe fruits look very different than the riper worty fruits, are they actually the same variety? Apparently, because the plant has never been prompted in any particular direction, they can throw any variety of forms from the seeds of one squash. In different parts of the range, they may be more inclined towards one shape or another. However, the farmers around Modimolle (which is around thirty minutes’ drive from here) pull in at least three different shapes each season. > [@VeggieSavage](#): > > How thick is the rind? The rind is incredibly thick, much like the variety you posted, which apparently gives it a longer shelf life. > [@VeggieSavage](#): > > How do they eat this vegetable? Unripe fruit like a summer squash or seed ripe fruit as a winter squash? Is it slightly bitter? What about the leaves/shoots & flowers? are the not bitter & delicious? Again, I have no first-hand experience, but let me answer what I can. They eat this as a Winter Squash, rather than a summer squash, and it’s cooked in the traditional way of the white farming community (with butter and sugar), so I assume it must have a similar taste to the landracey varieties like Flat White Boer. I’m still trying to get in touch with people who actually use/have it (otherwise I’ll just order seeds and grow them), so I don’t have any information around the leaves and flowers. In the Afrikaans farming community, most people I’ve spoken to seem to frown upon eating the leaves (which is unfortunate, because I want to try **everything** about the different plants). However, to the indigenous African community it’s considered a delicacy. They group it together with amaranth and traditional mustards under a term called “marogo” which generally refers to greens that they either ferment or eat braised with tomato. I’m looking forward to trying these and being able to provide more concrete information. I imagine they’d cross well with that Grizzly Bear variety to produce something with an almost bomb-proof rind. ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 12:07pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/8 "2024-08-29T12:07:53Z")
> [@JohananV](#): > > Apparently, because the plant has never been prompted in any particular direction, they can throw any variety of forms from the seeds of one squash. Interesting, so it’s pretty much a diverse proto landrace? Also if multiple different types are found in the seeds of just 1 fruit. Do you noticed any difference among the seed? I know the seedcoat is mother material, but the embyro size/shape inside is not, meaning you should be able to see some differences if there was a hybridization! > [@JohananV](#): > > The rind is incredibly thick, much like the variety you posted, which apparently gives it a longer shelf life. Interesting, but is it difficult to slice too? > [@JohananV](#): > > In the Afrikaans farming community, most people I’ve spoken to seem to frown upon eating the leaves (which is unfortunate, because I want to try **everything** about the different plants). Strange… Maybe the leaves are bitter in their varieties? or maybe the texture is completly off if so the youngest tender leaves should be used. > [@JohananV](#): > > However, to the indigenous African community it’s considered a delicacy. They group it together with amaranth and traditional mustards under a term called “marogo” which generally refers to greens that they either ferment or eat braised with tomato. Right on! They know what’s good! I would’ve group it the same way. Only non bitter leaves are any good & safe to eat. Someone should breed Cucurbita for the leaves/shoots, flowers, immature & mature fruit & seeds. Making it a SUPER vegetable where every part is edible! just like many wild edibles like amaranth, dandelion, wild mustard, chickweed, lambsquaters, ect. > [@JohananV](#): > > I’m looking forward to trying these and being able to provide more concrete information. I imagine they’d cross well with that Grizzly Bear variety to produce something with an almost bomb-proof rind. haha 🤣, bomb-proof rind. You might even be able to knock out somebody with it. ---
**Author:** ![Yorhan\_Vittus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6bbea6/32.png) [@Yorhan\_Vittus](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Yorhan_Vittus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2026, 1:24am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/9 "2026-05-25T01:24:32Z")
Hi! I’ve never seen “donut” shaped gourds, those from the photos are Lagenaria siceraria. Here where i live the edible varieties are called “Caxi”, i have the warted variety and would love to include the long and the flattened ones to make a grex and use the rind as pots after they’re dry. ---
**Author:** ![VeggieSavage](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/veggiesavage/32/3383_2.png) [@VeggieSavage](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/VeggieSavage)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2026, 2:32am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/10 "2026-06-05T02:32:44Z")
Nice! Are the flat shaped gourds more easy to eat than the long shaped ones? I assume you stuff them with rice & sauce? ---
**Author:** ![Yorhan\_Vittus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6bbea6/32.png) [@Yorhan\_Vittus](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Yorhan_Vittus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2026, 8:55pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/cucumis-metuliferus-sativus-anguria-crosses/2845/11 "2026-08-31T20:55:23Z")
Never tried. I only peel them, take off the spongy interior, slice into cubes and stew them or add into soups. Ps: Sorry for taking so long to reply.