This is exactly why I have been putting so much effort into making interspecial hybrid swarms of tomatoes, with hand pollination, before I let them loose outside and start natural pollination. The only exception I made for this was with peruvianum which is self incompatible so I just planted one of each variety and they would have automatically crossed with each other.
Maybe thinking of it as a multigenerational project could help. Especially if you could get others in the local area involved. So even if some peopel move away or their children stay but donât have interest, you could maybe still have enough local trees growing that the community as a whole takes on the project and maybe in a few generations has amazing landrace varieties. Would be a cool legacy too
I asked some fruit tree folk about grafting, thinking that maybe you could grow seedlings then graft many seedlings to one big old tree. But apparently itâs not so simple, I think they said it depends on the age of the scion, not simply the age of the tree. Iâm not sure if that means it doesnât speed it up at all, but sounded like at least not as much as I was expecting, so far as I remember. Maybe worth looking into more though! But your idea of using the rootstock for vigour sounds interesting, maybe in that regard it could speed up the first fruiting! I guess if you select for taste first like that, then all that pass that test, you could cross and then (or after another round or more) grow then without grafting, for environmental selection?
Yay! I received my seeds from https://toughcitrus.com! He was super nice and even included a few extra seeds of two bonus varieties. More genetic diversity for the WIN!
Iâm wondering how all the hardy citrus projects have fared?
I listened to a You Tube about all the background genetics of a pretty comprehensive list of citrus. They are all crossed with each other, then back crossed, then crossed with something else, and that is the fruit we are all familiar with. Some are cold hardy, but not cold enough for my growing zone (5b).
Other plants, when given the opportunity to fend for themselves in a landrace situation, have been known to be more hardy than the plant was previously known for.
Iâm wondering, when I eat my fruit this winter, my fruit which is all crossed and crossed, if I grow out those seeds, will some of the original genetics show up? Is there a chance that there is a hardiness gene hiding in there somewhere, and if I start several hundred seeds, something might survive? Iâm sure the odds would be better if I were working with thousands, but I know I will only eat so much fruit!
Anyway, I think Iâll try it, since the seeds are a free by-product, and if they all die, then I havenât really lost anything.
Thoughts, but no thoughts about why it wonât work, please
citrus fruits have been domesticated and stabilized for centuries, some are faithful to seedlings others less.
the Russians had tested during the Cold War the mass sowing of citrus fruits to possibly find some exceptional genetics, unfortunately Russia is still not famous for its citrus production.
In zone 5b, I am afraid that citrus fruits can be established without a greenhouse. But in a greenhouse could be tempted: Poncirus x Papeda and Eremocitrus x Citrus sinensis
This 2 plants would give you a good starting genetic pole to cross in all directions and invent other things.
Fruit trees are not stabilized, but propagated from cuttings. Stabilizing wouldnât even make sense as it would need so much space and take decades when you can just take cuttings and multiply your variety that way. Thatâs why there are always huge genetic variance from those grown from seeds even if it is not apparent by looks. It depends on their parentage. If itâs a cross with similar parents, then offspring is likely to continue to be similar in looks. Similarly if you cross two red tomatoes with normal leaves you are likely to have very similar results in F1 and F2 on even if there are genetic variance. Donât let the looks fool you. Itâs only a small portion of the genes that can make genetically two completely distinct varieties look the same. Even some distinct species acquire similar looks even if they donât have common ancestor for millions of years.
I mean, if you sow Yuzu, youâll get Yuzu. of course they are not clĂ´nes their genetics varies a little, but the fruits remain similar, more than if you sow apple trees
No you wonât. Stabilizing fruit trees would take so long that it just doesnât make sense when you can skip 50 years of hard work by crafting. Itâs possibly that that some have gone a few generations towards more stable, but none are stable. Info about Yuzu says itâs a F1 hybrid, as is the case with most fruit varieties.
it has been stabilized ( or naturally stabilized with time ) in the sense that when you sow Yuzu seeds, of any strain you have Yuzu n°1, Yuzu °3, Hanayuzu⌠you get trees with 100% yuzu leaves and fruits. Never reappear leaves like Ichang or KabossuâŚetc
Of course there is a slight variation in fruit maturity, hardiness, plant habit, juice contentâŚ
All the grower reports report it.
I send you a photo tonight of my seedlings of Yuzu, it is of an impressive regularity no variation of leaf or speed of growthâŚall would say clones.
here on page 3 they refer to the cultivation of yuzu for a long time originated from sowing. Of course you are right that grafting saves time, but the goal of sowing is to succeed in this case to find genetic variations more adapted to local conditions.
In any case it is in this sense that I want to work, because I am not in Japan my hardiness is limited and therefore I seek to find more rustic genetic variations or more precosseous in fruiting maturity to avoid freezing fruit.
Even in the case of sowing from seeds, it would need to be selfed for many generations. That source says itâs been grown both sowing and wild trees making it more like a landrace. Itâs probably stable in just a few key traits, but not actually stable. That just never happens in fruits. Being stable is not just about looks. In the case of growing it from a store bought fruits, it is at least likely itâs been cross pollinated within itâs variety, but also possibly with other varieties.
None of mine have sprouted at all, and I was discouraged and thinking that meant they were dead. But then my loquats, which I planted a month earlier and which hadnât sprouted yet either, popped up en masse in August, so . . . maybe some citrus sprouts will pop up in spring!
In the past I have kept a pot of dirt inside, and every time I ate a citrus, I poked the seed in the pot, and lots of them sprouted. But I ended up neglecting them, and lost them all. Indoor plants have not fared well under my care in the past, but Iâve never had this incentive before either, not believing there was any chance they could survive after all. But now that I can convince myself that there is this tiny shred of a chance, Iâm going to try this again. A flower pot with my native soil, and just plant as many citrus seeds as I can eat the fruit of. Perhaps an incentive to eat more fruit as well! Then in the spring, plant them all outside, perhaps try to find a warmer micro-climate in my yard for them. And let them live or die, probably die, but what if one lives? Iâll never know unless I try!
I planted them in May here in 6a and I got nearly 90% germination. I have between 15-20 US-852 seedlings, and nearly as many C-252 (?). So far with complete neglect and only a tiny bit of water, the 852 are doing quite well. Theyâre at a height of about 1ft.
The C-252 are alive but are not NEARLY as tall (maybe a couple inches?) not expecting much from those but we just had our first frost so weâll see who survives the winter.
Thatâs encouraging to hear! I thought mine were all dead because none of them sprouted, but I started seeing a few citrus sprouts (I think?) in August, in the places where I sowed them, so it was probably just that they needed more water to sprout, like the loquats. (Our summers are dry, except for one week in August. All the loquat seeds I had planted in spring finally popped up after our rainy week in August, months after I thought they were dead.)
Hereâs hoping Iâll see citrus continue to pop up around my garden for me!
I, uh, should not have been reading this older thread⌠because now I have 10 citrandarin seeds on the way⌠Wonder how theyâll like our 7a zone (technically closer to 6b microclimate) against a south-facing brick wall/corner of my house?
(Laugh.) Yeah, itâs definitely exciting to think of having seed-grown citrus trees with tasty fruits that can handle our colder climates, isnât it?
My husband ADORES clementines and other small sweet citrus. So the possibility of being able to grow something similar thatâs cold hardy is a dream come true.
Thereâs a few of the trifoliate orange at our county zoo (in an outdoor aviary exhibit, so I know theyâre not getting special winter treatment) and theyâre gorgeous. I admit Iâve picked up some of the fruits before just to smell because I love the fragrance. Hereâs to hoping I get good germinationâŚ
