Ok, just what is fasha? Google changes it to fascia, and the spelling you gave leads to gaming.
Anybody else noticed that the accuracy of the search function has gone way diwn since they started using AI? It doesn’t even ask anymore, “Did you mean____?” But simply assumes it knows best and gives me the search results I didn’t ask for.
Yes! 
Haha I spelled it the way it’s pronounced. It’s a weird word, english is weird & I’ve been speaking it pretty much my whole life.
Anyways the point was fascia was considered useless at one time, doctors thinking it did nothing & would even try removing it!? we can be soooo wrong about something for so long. Now that I think about it, I think that’s what a Dogma might actually be.
yes pretty much AI has somewhat replaced the search engine function.
They used to remove tonsils with any excuse, because they didn’t do anything. Medical “science.”
The appendix used to be considered the same, unimportant with no function.
Now they know it is important for the gut microbiome. It is the back-up reserve for when things become imbalanced.
hmm… I’m just realizing we also had the same attitudes towards Genetics vs Epigenetics.
Genetics being the hardware & Epigenetics being the software.
Epigenetics turn on or off certain genes based on environment & these turn on or off states can be inherited. in the next generation.
I feel like epigenetics is better represented by a “volume knob” vs an on/off switch.
Epigenetics adjusts the level of expression. And each generation may see greater or lesser levels of expression in those genes, depending on the environmental conditions they are being selected for.
You’re right! Volume knob is more accurate.
Now I wonder can epigenetics eventually change the actual genetics too?
Currently, scientists say no. I believe otherwise. I think this is another of those beliefs that will change as evidence piles up.
well that is what scientific method is after all, questioning everything gets you closer to the truth
Take two groups being selected for a specific adaptation in opposite directions (wet vs dry, cold vs warm, shade vs sun, etc.)
Individuals will experience increasingly diverging epigenetic changes each generation, which will lead to eventual full “genetic” change over a long enough period of time.
Epigenetic change is just the short term, more fluid & flexible, adjustments.
If the selection pressure is temporary the adjustment is temporary. If the selection pressure is lasting the result of compounding adjustment will eventually be seen as genetic change.
The issue is trying to determine a line between “epigenetics” and “actual genetics”. It’s all genetics.
hmm… but each generation changes both epigenetic + genetic changes?
Lofthouse said his Squash Landraces took about 3 years before they really took off (I think is this more genetic due to hybridization), but even with limited genetics like say in Garlic people notice even replanting garlic cloves eventually leads to some epigenetic changes too (Which is asexual reproduction, the only way it adapts is via Epigenetic changes, Mutations or both!).
Indeed! Both influence each other. But I do like how even with bad genetics from the start, it’s not the end of the story.
If looking at a grex or adapted/landrace population there will be too much variability from the genetic diversity to identify or isolate any epigenetic change.
But in a highly stable variety or population, under the right conditions, it could probably be observed.
The “bad genetics” were potentially good genetics historically.
Although there’s always the possibility that genes brought together from distant populations just don’t work well together in the offspring. (Outbreeding depression)
If bad genetics don’t contribute to survival, they end up on the compost pile and that combination is gone. If they contribute to survival, it’s early stage adaptation. The organism will eventually figure it out.
I thought it was the opposite, where the epigenetic effect is even stronger in recently hybridized offspring, when Horizontal Gene Transfer is at its strongest.
Ah… maybe it’s just harder to notice the Epigenetic change in such diverse population is what you are trying to say?
Indeed but with so many combinations, there’s less & less chances they all don’t work. Each offspring trys a different combo & with more diversity, it means even more combos could be created.
I think this might be more relevant to tropical x temperate species
Yes, you’ve removed all controls and are left with too many variables.
As long as you have enough offspring.
Which is why it’s unfortunate that very wide crosses can often result in less seed and less viability. But that is likely just the initial selecting-out of those combinations that didn’t work.
I’ve tried to understand the premise of this discussion, but still don’t get it. The claim is that the cause for digestion issues in wheat is hybridization. Second, that traditional wheats (who were supposedly not hybridized) are easier to digest because of a simpler gluten structure. These two claims then make the basis for a more general discussion about the problem of hybrids. Am I following?
I wonder what the source is. As @JesseI has already pointed out, cross-pollination (synonymous with hybridization) is the natural state in the plant kingdom. What you’re describing might better be called plant breeding, i.e. intentional crossing for specific traits - here the gluten content of wheat.
What I know from my colleagues that love to make bread is that the best wheat flour to bake with has a high gluten content - minimum 12%.
that makes sense, in that case babying your wide crosses can be worth it in the long run.
The wide crosses sometimes result in sterility issues which need introgression with both parent species + mentor pollen mixing + other specialized techniques to by pass hybridization barriers & sterility issues.
However recently hybridized offspring are more receptive towards wider hybridization so hybridizing inbred varieties with it’s own species first may be the smarter move.
For example a very inbred selfed uniform cultivar of Vigna radiata may stuggle crossing with other species that a Diverse recently hybridized offspring of Vigna radiata will cross more easily/reliably with other species, even outside it’s own section like with Vigna umbellata or Vigna angularis.
I don’t think hybridization, breeding, or increased gluten is the actual problem. Most Americans who claim gluten allergies don’t have any problems if they eat breads while in Europe.
I believe it’s the way the U.S. flour is being processed. U.S. allows all kinds of filler and preservatives to everything, which are often not allowed anywhere else.
That sounds like a reasonable hypothesis. So this thread is not really about the supposed problems of hybridization anymore, is what I’m getting.