Mistake is that packages will get seeds along the way. Separating to 2 croups will mean that there isn’t any interchange between those two groups and that’s what makes it cheaper and take less time; you only do half of what the other system does.
This is where the other 50% will come.
Lets talk here:
There is no two groups, only two packages. The right package goes around to all the people. And the same for the left one it goes to all the people too. I was commenting that is not necessary to get the two packages, but the original intention is to get seed from the two packages, instead of receive one package you receive two. The two packages have the same seed, not in the same moment but it contains in space time the same seed. Because when you get the package you put half of the seed to the right package and half of the seed to the left package. Every person in the circle has a go to the seeds envelopes, different times, different packages, but a go to all the envelopes.
There is interchange between those two packages, when a person receive both packages there is a packet reordering if you are concerned about it. But in that moment all the persons of the circle have receive seeds, and the swap is still going on.
But your calculations are only done so far that there are 2 groups. If both go full round they will come to about the same time wise and in money as one package. One way to disprove your calculations (or that they cover same as with one package) is to apply your calculations again and again. If they were right, you could in theory indefinetely double packages and cut costs by half. So if there were for example 1000 people, you could add more packages and get the jop done eventually with close to free. But it doesn’t work like that. In either case, if you want all the packages to cover all the people in the list, (and people add/take ass many seeds along the way) you will send the same weight and comparable distance both with 1 or 2. 2 packages will travel double the distance, but on average half the weight. So both ways on average will cost around the same. Smaller packages will cost more per kg so they should be more expensive, maybe no more than 20-30% or something like that.
Not really, because the seeds are not a constant on the package. You remove seeds as you go. If you have a package the seeds decrease as a half of a rating as if you have two packages. So you need to ship less seeds/weight ratio with two packages. Yes you ship the same number of packages, but with two packages you ship less weight, as half of it, because two packages you need to ship less every time as a two rate as if you ship only one, that’s why we get almost 50% with the calculation. The equations are not a lineal one.
1 package, ship seeds for 17 persons, ship 16… it comes down to 152€
2 packages, ship seeds for 9 persons and ship seeds for 8 persons, ship seeds for 8 and seeds for 7, it comes down to 81€
It is going to be differences on the prices and the weight, but he average will have savings up to ~50%
Yes, there is asymptote on the calculations and a low inflection point, probably between basic price of the shipping, like 82 cents for Spanish mail, and the upper of 10€ that we calculated. But then the complexity scales, you got like 9 packages going around and is not that simple to organize that.
No, I didn’t mean that. I meant the whole thing will become close to free if doubling packages will reduce the price by 50% to do the same job. You would have 1000 packages going round group of 1000 people with price of under 1 cent for sending all the 1000 packages 1000 times.
On average it will be.
Well those are done wrong. If you look at what you calculated in 2 packages it will end with 1 meaning that it stops there. So both of those 2 packages only make it half way.
Correct comparison would; 1 package 17+16…
2 packages 9+8,5+8…
8+7,5+7…
This way both will go through the whole group and come to same price. But like I said at the start, the premise of the calculations is faulty because they get added more. That’s why you neede to think the proses as whole. Only variable is amount of seeds send. If same amount of seeds are sent with 1 and 2 packages, then the price should be about same. If less seeds is sent because of one or other, then it’s not really cheaper by being more effective, but sending less seeds.
Yes.
With one package it cost 153
With two packages it cost 81
Different price. Can you do the math?
Now we got the problem more complex yes, but in reality for averages is that part just multiplied by 17.
Yes because every person removes 1/17 of the total seeds.
For one package every person removes 1/17.
For two packages. Every person removes 1/17 of the total seeds. Same as before but is separated in two packages.
For package right every person removes 1/9 of the seeds of the right package. That is half of the seeds, 17/2, 8,5 rounding 9.
For package left every person removes 1/8 of the seeds of the left package. That is half of the seeds, 17/2, 8.5, rounding 8.
With two packages every person has removed 1/17 of the total seeds.
Of course the seeds only have traveled “half way”, that is the advantatge of this system. Package right for the right side, package left for the left side. Everybody got their seeds. The packages have travelled for all the people.
They come to same. You can count if you like. Did make the mistake of using your starting number when in reality there would be 2 that started from 8,5 to have 17 steps, and not 9 and 8 to get 16 and 18 steps. That doesn’t change the maths though. So 2 times 8,5+8+7,5…0.5 compared to 17+16+15…1. If you only count half of the 2 package system you will get half.
No, more seeds gets added. You calculated with seeds that are the same so that every step would be same. That’s why you only calculated to half because it works when you start from both ends with same seeds, but both packages are unique. That’s why they would go from one end to other. With one package there would be 17 steps and 2 packages 34 steps. If used your calculating system it would go like a wrote above, but it doesn’t really represent what happens with serendipity and it complicates what actually happens. 17 steps with heavier package or 34 steps with average half the weight of the single package.
We moved stuff a bit, to keep the original thread more focused on the actual seed train.
Sorry about that! Nothing has been removed, just moved over here.
I’ve moved the thread into the Sharing seed category, as it relates that topic. Originally this thread grew out of the EU version of the Serendipity seed swap (which is in a closed group). @Richard noted that the ideas explored here could have relevance to the other seed chains. So I’ve kept it for everyone to read along and take part. We’ll see if this debate goes somewhere after the ideas have went through the back-and-forth.
You remove the same amount 1kg each step for the two packages and for the one package. In reality is the same 1/17 of the total seeds, but now you got 2 packages of half of the total seeds, you you get 1/8.5 that averages 1kg (100g). Everybody gets 1kg.
I want my melons arrive to everybody one time, not two times.
In reality is 8.5+7.5+6.5+5.5+4.5+3.5+2.5+1.5+0.5=40.5. multiplied by 2 is 81.
Why are you removing 1kg for the one package and not for the two packages?
Thanks.
You missed the halving. It’s not 8,5+7,5+6,5…It’s 8,5+8,0+7,5…Times 2 it’s (2x8,5)+(2x8,0)+(2x7,5)… So simply put 17+16+15…which is same as with one package.
You are still stuck with your melon example that has the wrong premise. In serendipity your melons would be only in one of the packages. That’s why you keep on counting half what you should count. You will have 17 steps of 1 or 34 steps of 0.5, otherwise your calculations will end in the middle and also your melons can only reach half the people at most.
I think we need to start to practice a bit more kindness in here, guys… 
I didn’t mean it in a bad way, just trying to guide to the source of the mistake.
Yes, but decreasing 1kg each step.
Times 2 it’s (2x8,5)+(2x7,5)+(2x6,5)+…= 81
2 packages x (8.5+7.5+6.5+5.5+4.5+3.5+2.5+1.5+0.5)
Sending the right package cost me 8.5€, sending the left package cost me 8.5€. For the left person it gonna cost 7.5€, for the right person it gonna cost 7.5€.
There are 17 people, and every person got 1 share.
Yes, in the beggining.
I will do as follow. When I recieve the right package I put half of the melons in it. When I recieve the left package I will put half of the melons there.
In the same moment, they are going to be only one on package, and then in two packages, and then in the other package. And then none.
Other things can ocurr, one package have seeds, all next 8 people collectes it, other package comes arround, I put seeds, other 9 people collected.
For my algorith to work, you need to put half of the seeds in each package.
hello everybody, Thomas, on the phone mentioned this thread . I had missed it, sorry.
Well, difficult for me to read all the comments and recombine answers.
Just a few points :