# What would you like to see in a ficifolia (fig leaf gourd) grex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cucurbits\ **Created:** [April 19, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007 "2023-04-19T02:26:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UnicornEmily](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/unicornemily/32/530_2.png) [@UnicornEmily](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/UnicornEmily)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/1 "2023-04-19T02:26:10Z")
Hi, guys! I’ve volunteered to be the seed steward for ficifolia (fig leaf gourd) this year! I’d like to gauge how many people have seeds to contribute. Please post here if you do. If there are enough people growing it, we may be able to do more than one grex, based on different traits. Has anyone been selecting their population for anything special? ---
**Author:** ![Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/joseph_lofthouse/32/96_2.png) [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Joseph_Lofthouse)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 5:43am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/2 "2023-04-19T05:43:31Z")
I have grown fig-leaved gourd for more than a decade. I perceive it, without any science or DNA analysis, to be highly inbred. The pictures I see of fruits all look the same. Same size. Same shape. Same color. Same bland flavor and colorless flesh. The leaves all look the same. The vines all look the same. I would love a day-neutral variety, that could flower and set seed during the long-days of summer instead of the short-days of fall when my fields are already freezing. ---
**Author:** ![UnicornEmily](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/unicornemily/32/530_2.png) [@UnicornEmily](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/UnicornEmily)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 8:36am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/3 "2023-04-19T08:36:24Z")
I’ve read they’re a perennial in zones 9 and above, which may fit with them being highly inbred. If they are highly inbred, that represents both a challenge and an opportunity. If we can find some wild accessions of the species, there may be a lot of untapped potential for breeding there. Anyone have some ideas where we may look for some? ---
**Author:** ![Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/joseph_lofthouse/32/96_2.png) [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Joseph_Lofthouse)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/4 "2023-04-19T14:35:24Z")
I checked GRIN. They don’t list a single accession of Cucurbita ficifolia as available for distribution. Seems like fig-leaved melon could benefit from someone loving on it. Might be worthwhile approaching GRIN, saying that we are a plant breeding network, interested in working on minor species that don’t attract attention from mega-ag, and could we please, please get seeds. ---
**Author:** ![Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/joseph_lofthouse/32/96_2.png) [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Joseph_Lofthouse)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/5 "2023-04-19T14:59:27Z")
Low genetic diversity, and anti-glycemic effect. Three phenotypes exist: mottled green rind with black seeds (the most common), white rind with black seeds, white rind with white seeds. > **[Analysis of genetic diversity of Cucurbita ficifolia Bouché from different...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S025462991731596X)** > > Several studies have reported remarkable hypoglycemic property of the aqueous extract of different varieties of the fruit of Curcubita ficifolia. The … ---
**Author:** ![UnicornEmily](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/unicornemily/32/530_2.png) [@UnicornEmily](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/UnicornEmily)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/6 "2023-04-19T16:42:31Z")
Hmm, sounds like the other phenotypes would be worth collecting. You’re right that ARS-GRIN doesn’t have anything. Where would be a good place to find both the white-seeded ones? ---
**Author:** ![Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/joseph_lofthouse/32/96_2.png) [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Joseph_Lofthouse)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/7 "2023-04-19T19:56:42Z")
I sent a message to GRIN today, so see if we can open a dialog about this species. > [@Joseph Lofthouse](#): > > Please direct to the curator of Cucurbita ficifolia. > > I am a plant breeder focused on conservation of landrace varieties and domestication of new species. I am on the advisory board of 501(c)3 Going To Seed, who’s mission is inspiring a shift in agriculture towards adaptation, community, and diversity. We support a network of 400 independent plant breeders. > > We have identified Cucurbita ficifolia as a domesticated species that is currently of no-commercial value in the usa, and therefore is being ignored by the seed companies. We have resources to dedicate to development of this species. > > There are currently no-accessions of Cucurbita ficifolia available for ordering from GRIN. How can we help? We have resources and willingness to grow out accessions and (hopefully) return seed. > > I’m sending this email primarily to open a dialog with you about this species, and how we can help in it’s preservation and development. > > Love, > Joseph Lofthouse, author of Landrace Gardening: food security through biodiversity and promiscuous pollination. ---
**Author:** ![UnicornEmily](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/unicornemily/32/530_2.png) [@UnicornEmily](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/UnicornEmily)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/8 "2023-04-19T21:22:13Z")
That’s an awesome e-mail! Thank you, Joseph! I hope it bears fruit! 🌱 ---
**Author:** ![H.B](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/h.b/32/2076_2.png) [@H.B](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/H.B)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 3:26am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/9 "2023-04-20T03:26:42Z")
Fantastic with the Grin communication! 🍈 I want to grow this (and probably will this season through the grab bag) but am honestly pretty intimidated. 100 fruits for a single plant? Can that be accurate? Even at a quarter of that I’m not sure how to make use of it as non-market gardners with other melons planned ---
**Author:** ![UnicornEmily](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/unicornemily/32/530_2.png) [@UnicornEmily](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/UnicornEmily)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 4:19am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/10 "2023-04-20T04:19:30Z")
Wow! A hundred doesn’t sound like it can be accurate! One website I checked said four to five fruits per plant, which sounds more like what I’d expect. Maybe a hundred fruits is what you can expect in the tropics, where this species is a perennial that can live for years and produce fruits year-round? How many fruits do you tend to expect per plant, Joseph? ---
**Author:** ![Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/joseph_lofthouse/32/96_2.png) [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Joseph_Lofthouse)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 4:38am UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/11 "2023-04-20T04:38:10Z")
I expect in the neighborhood of 4-5 fruits per plant. Depends on the season. If frost comes late, then they are more productive. ---
**Author:** ![julia.dakin](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/julia.dakin/32/12_2.png) [@julia.dakin](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/julia.dakin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/12 "2023-04-20T14:35:19Z")
I planted mine in two locations: Field w/average summer high of 58F, and was surprised to get gourds that matured, 1-2 per plant or less. Not very aggressive at all, behaved like a moschata. In a greenhouse, where they climbed up and over and pulled everything in sight, it was very cool. Not sure how many, could have been 4-5. ---
**Author:** ![Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/joseph_lofthouse/32/96_2.png) [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Joseph_Lofthouse)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/13 "2023-04-20T15:02:10Z")
GRIN sent this to me: > [@](#): > > Hello Joseph, > > The Cucurbita ficifolia collection is maintained in Griffin, GA. There are currently ~ 90 active accessions of this species in the genebank. As you mentioned, none of these ‘active’ accessions are currently available. However, if you and/or your colleagues would like to initiate a program of regenerating seed of the genebank’s C. ficifolia accessions so that these plant materials could become available for distribution and research, please let us know. Unfortunately, we can provide only very limited advice/instruction on growing this cucurbit. However, sources of information are likely available online and from cucurbit experts. > > Best, > > Bob > > * * * > > Cucurbita ficifolia > > [Cultivated for its edible fruit, grown abundantly in Guatemala at middle and high elevations, mostly at 1,500 m or more, said to be thoroughly naturalized in some localities, producing fruit, and reproducing itself. > > Plants perennial but producing fruit the first year from seed and often cultivated as an annual, sometimes growing to the tops of tall trees, but when cultivated usually prostrate, the stems stout, sparsely or densely setulose-pilose throughout; leaves on petioles 5-20 cm. long, the blades subreniform to circular-ovate in outline, often as much as 25 cm. broad, shallowly or deeply lobate, the lobes usually rounded, the basal sinus deep and open, or the basal lobes subauriculate; tendrils multifid on sturdy peduncles; staminate flowers: long-pedunculate, receptacle tube 5-7 mm long, sepals linear, acuminate, corollas yellow to light orange; pistillate flowers: short pedunculate, the corollas as much as 12 cm broad; fruit large and heavy, ovoid to globose, 15-35 cm long, green with white blotches and stripes, the shell hard and durable, the flesh firm and white, the peduncle of medium length, 5-6 cm long, somewhat expanded at attachment to fruit; seeds round-ovate, narrow-margined, flat, 1.5-2 cm. long, said to be black when fully mature. > > These plants are grown extensively in the mountains of Guatemala. In the highlands during the dry season, one may see immense numbers of the heavy fruits piled about the houses. Often large numbers are laid along the eaves or on the roofs of the low houses to ripen, or perhaps also to keep them away from domestic animals. > > The fruits are highly esteemed for making desserts of various kinds, the flesh usually cooked in thick syrup. They are also grown as food for cattle, horses, and sheep during the long dry season when there is scant pasture. According to Standley, “At some places in barrancos on the lower slopes of the Volcan de Fuego, toward Antigua, chilacayote vines have become thoroughly naturalized and look like native plants, climbing to the tops of high trees, and forming dense tangles of stems and foliage.”] – Dieterle, 1976 ---
**Author:** ![UnicornEmily](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/unicornemily/32/530_2.png) [@UnicornEmily](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/UnicornEmily)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 7:51pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/14 "2023-04-20T19:51:41Z")
I laughed out loud at your description of how they behaved in your greenhouse! Sounds like a cucurbit that may want to be planted next to my metal fence! It’s such a lovely strong potential trellis; I want to have a big vining plant growing up it to enjoy it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UnicornEmily](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/unicornemily/32/530_2.png) [@UnicornEmily](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/UnicornEmily)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/15 "2023-04-20T19:57:29Z")
Thank you for getting in contact with GRIN! With 90 accessions, there may be some great genetic diversity in there to work with. It sounds like they could use some people who are willing to grow out an accession in isolation and return seeds to them. I’d be willing to do that. Any other volunteers? What kinds of traits are we, as a community, most interested in? If I’m choosing, I think the traits that would be most interesting are sweeter and more flavorful fruit, quickness to fruit, and drought tolerance. Those are traits that seem useful for anyone growing the species. ---
**Author:** ![julia.dakin](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/julia.dakin/32/12_2.png) [@julia.dakin](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/julia.dakin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/16 "2023-04-20T20:21:41Z")
> [@UnicornEmily](#): > > kinds of traits are we, I love snacking on the seeds (not truly hull-less, but hulls are very digestible). In Oaxaca the black seeds were available for sale in all the markets. However, they are time consuming to remove! Because unlike other squash, there wasn’t a seed cavity, they were all over the flesh, so removing them was time-consuming and messy. I’d love to see more seeds, moving towards a seed cavity like pumpkins or maximas, if such a thing is possible. Although after 8000ish years of domestication I assume people eating them would have already done that 🙂 Doing this would also have an advantage for people who like eating the flesh, because it would stay more intact when removing the seeds. Also we need to recruit people with generations of a relationship with Chilacayota, and I may be in a good geographic location to do that, so I’ll work on it. @laurenm has been amazing at doing this in her local community of Napa, so there are a lot more seeds being grown out in California this year. And this was a photo from last weekend, this giant beauty was grown by Rebecca Newburn and given to an admirer last week. It would be fantastic to have enough seeds to freely re-matriate them to the Mexican and Central American diaspora who don’t have easy access to the seeds ![20230410_201656](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/0/07d0b42c6b05646fa7a44a041ea30b783f5c623c.jpeg) I just cut open one that was gifted to me by somebody locally, and it had a soft shell! More like a melon. The Lofthouse ficicolia were all very hard to cut open, so I might have some diversity to contribute now. ![20230420_131733](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/2/23dd5731f91a7b722f28195ff7b25370c04b18a2.jpeg) ![20230420_131737](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/8/8977f224e73df0c814181b95df7818b8c4e8c613.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/joseph_lofthouse/32/96_2.png) [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Joseph_Lofthouse)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/17 "2023-04-20T20:44:12Z")
I volunteer to grow one accession. I’ll put it in the greenhouse, to give it some extra time in the fall. The most valuable trait to me would be day-neutral, so that it flowers during the long-days of summer instead of in very late fall. I noticed that the GRIN database has few records regarding this species. Mostly just a photo of the seeds. Creating a report with photos of the plants and fruits would be valuable. Posting into this thread would be lovely. ---
**Author:** ![Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/joseph_lofthouse/32/96_2.png) [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/Joseph_Lofthouse)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/18 "2023-04-20T20:52:28Z")
![ficifolia-100_4456_640](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/8/8490499c4dccd6443aee99d1cf50cff5717c8ec4.jpeg) ![ficifolia-100_4457_640](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/9/97b1ddaac9a1d96470ad95d81636f2aa825c5c87.jpeg) ![ficifolia-100_4459_640](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/9/96b35ae1d2c8246806e6e3e97ca61d379090e881.jpeg) ![ficifolia-100_4494_640](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/e/e314db70ae2d4c2edcd47078c762145dc6a4fe4b.jpeg) ![cucurbita-ficifolia](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/3/39f047094471673153b1389323767587201e6c66.jpeg) ![cucurbita-ficifolia-2018](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/landracegardening/original/2X/7/70e8a3f2e9af89edbed5525f3911df8cc4bbd290.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![H.B](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/h.b/32/2076_2.png) [@H.B](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/H.B)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/19 "2023-04-20T22:58:24Z")
> [@Joseph\_Lofthouse](#): > > I expect in the neighborhood of 4-5 fruits per plant. Depends on the season. If frost comes late, then they are more productive. > [@julia.dakin](#): > > I planted mine in two locations: Field w/average summer high of 58F, and was surprised to get gourds that matured, 1-2 per plant or less. Not very aggressive at all, behaved like a moschata. In a greenhouse, where they climbed up and over and pulled everything in sight, it was very cool. Not sure how many, could have been 4-5. That’s great! I’m having trouble finding a source for 100 now and glad to hear it’s nowhere near accurate. I have space and am looking forward to grow the seed in the grab bag. Do we have a notion of (or did I overlook) how many plants and what isolation distance would be needed to grow one of the GRIN accessions? ---
**Author:** ![UnicornEmily](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/goingtoseed.discourse.group/unicornemily/32/530_2.png) [@UnicornEmily](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/u/UnicornEmily)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 11:25pm UTC](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007/20 "2023-04-20T23:25:45Z")
Isolation distance is probably unimportant unless you’re planning to grow two populations yourself, because the likelihood of your neighbors growing it is very low. I can ask. I should definitely ask how many plants they want grown of each accession. [Next page](https://goingtoseed.discourse.group/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-a-ficifolia-fig-leaf-gourd-grex/1007.md?page=2)