A banana for the desert

I grew a Dwarf Namwah in a pot in part shade with southern exposure for two years. It grew but it needed a lot of extra water and by late summer the leaves were always a little crispy.

I have heard that the majority of the Blue Java bananas being sold are actually just Dwarf Namwah, even sold from big companies. It has something to do with a grower mixing up labels and then the industry just went with it because they were making more money selling ‘ice cream’ bananas. It’s something that seems to be well known on the banana forums.

Also, here is another source for banana plants and info.

https://www.bananapups.com

I’ve been following them for a while now. They specialize in rare and cold hardy bananas plants. No seeds.

Unfortunately they have not had anything for sale the last few years due to weather related damages and some health issues. Hoping they get back to selling soon.
Huge collection. The prices were high, but they did have the true Blue Java and the California Gold.

I love that website. I second the recommendation for anyone interested in hardy banana plants to check it out. :slight_smile:

Oh, sheesh, that happened with Ice Cream bananas? Well, I can say that I’ve bought pups of both varieties, and there’s a noticeable difference. The Dwarf Namwah pups were all shorter and stockier. The Ice Cream pups were all taller, with skinnier leaves and more pseudostem in between the new leaves starting. Exactly what I would expect from a dwarf compared to a non-dwarf variety.

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Do you remember who you bought from? I’ve been wanting one. All I have now is a basjoo which I just got this spring.

I did just purchase some cheesmanii and helens hybrid seeds. Did you ever get either of those to germinate?

Yup! I bought these Amazon listings:

I can report that, out of the pups I received, Ice Cream is definitely the most vigorous and least likely to get root rot. Dwarf Namwah suffers from transplant shock the most and seems to be the most prone to root rot. Gran Nain seems to be somewhere in between.

I assumed Dwarf Namwah would be the best banana plant for my climate, but so far, the clear edge has been going to Ice Cream. I now have two Ice Cream pups still alive, and one each of Dwarf Namwah and Gran Nain. The rest died of overwatering and/or transplant shock while they were in my greenhouse. (Wry grin.) On the bright side, now I’ve learned more about what not to do with bananas!

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Oh, Musa cheesmanii and Helen’s Hybrid. Nope! The seeds didn’t germinate. Nothing I bought from that seller germinated. Absolutely nothing. And the seeds looked quite old; some were outright brittle. I suspect I was sent old seeds that had died years ago.

This was the seller I bought them from:

They also sell seeds on Ebay and Etsy. I’ve bought seeds from their website directly, on Ebay, and on Etsy. All three times, they were packaged well, sent quickly, and I believe were exactly what they were purported to be. I think the seeds are just old, which is legitimately okay for some species. Sadly, my experience so far implies that bananas really need fresh seeds (under a year old) in order to germinate. But that could very easily simply be user error. I’m not an expert, I’m a novice with a lot of research and high ambitions! :wink:

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Thanks!

Well I will let you know if I have any better luck with the seeds I get. I used the same seller, and didn’t see them available anywhere else.

Yeah, I haven’t seen them available elsewhere, either. It’s definitely possible it was just user error on my end, so if you have more luck with yours than I did with mine, that’ll prove it! :smiley:

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Adding this here in case anyone else might be looking. This seller has Musa cheesmanii seeds:

If I do get mine to germinate and grow successfully I will send you a few pups!

Oooh, and they even seem to have a sale going right now . . .

Your ideas are good for my garden and bad for my pocketbook, you know that? :wink:

I would love to get a few pups from you. Of anything in the Musaceae family that is surviving in your similar-to-mine climate! :smiley: And I offer you the same thing, assuming I can finally get some bananas growing well here. (Grin.)

I’ve made definite progress, just by figuring out that they prefer full shade here! (Laugh.)

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Same for me!
I had started planning a cold hardy banana project a few years ago but put it on the back burner.
Just thought I would get every species/variety that would survive and hope to select for slightly improved hardiness through the pups. Never thought to grow them from seed.
Definitely didn’t think I could time flowering for cross pollination.

I think if you could get people from zones 10-8b to create hybrids which could then produce pups to be sent and trialed at each colder zone, it would reduce a lot of the challenges and accelerate the process.
Once you work out the hardiness and select out the non-hardy plants then you can breed those for the next generation. Same could be done for the drought tolerance.

Definitely. It would be really, really interesting to see if we can breed delicious bananas that start exhibiting traits like plants adapted to desert climates. Leaves with bit of a silvery tint, for instance (a natural sunscreen), or pseudostems or corms that store a lot of water (like a succulent), or just plain deeper roots, etc.

Corms that are far less prone to root rot, so they can handle big deluges of water and then nothing for awhile, would be particularly nice for any climate that gets a lot of its water during one part of the year and not during the rest. (Which seems to be true of many arid and semi-arid areas.)

One potentially interesting avenue to try would be collecting hardy gingers and cannas and seeing if we can cross those with bananas. They’re in the same order, which is not very closely related, but it’s close enough that a cross may be possible.

I’d rather cross banana species with each other, of course, but since syncing up flowering can be difficult, I like the idea of having gingers and cannas around to try some kind of cross between edible plants, any kind of cross, whenever only one banana plant is flowering. Gingers and cannas are supposed to flower for several months (midsummer until first frost), so in theory, they ought to have fresh pollen available for awhile. And, I mean, I’d like to grow them for their own sake anyway, so it’s not like it would be a burden to have them around.

My suspicion is that the best way to sync up flowering will be to have a lot of banana plants. When randomness plays a large role, a larger population size will help the chances of getting two at the same time. Then you could get initial crosses done.

Once we have even a few consistently fertile, cold hardy plants, then I think the project will start taking giant strides forward, because it’s likely that all the corms will start growing a fresh pseudostem during the same few weeks in late spring. Which may help them to flower at the same time.

Assuming we succeed in that, we may want to send some pups to people in warmer climates to make sure we haven’t inadvertently bred day length sensitivity into the population, since bananas are naturally day neutral, and that’s an appealing trait.

My current thinking is that I probably want to keep the initial parents in a greenhouse and protect them every winter (from the wet more than the cold, I’m starting to think), but put the seeds out into normal conditions, to see if some epigenetic adaptations can be triggered to help them do well without help here.

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Lots of potential and options. I am excited to see how it goes!

Do you have a greenhouse?

I do! I got it as a Christmas present last year. It was on sale, and I wanted it. (Grin.) $160 for 130 square feet of space. I got this one on Amazon:

I’m planning to remove the plastic cover for the summer, to help it last longer. I figure during the summer, the really sturdy metal frame will be a great trellis for runner beans. And if I keep their roots inside the greenhouse during winter, they will hopefully stay alive and be perennials for me.

Meanwhile, I’ll have fully tropical trees inside, along with a rain tank that holds 250 gallons inside, and three rain tanks that hold 750 gallons put together outside against its north side. I also bought an extra layer of greenhouse plastic to put around the inside walls, to work as better insulation.

And I’ve found that a few open buckets of water on the inside, surprisingly, make a huge difference to temperature, probably because they make the air humid when the water inside evaporates a little into the air during the day.

All of that will keep the temperature consistently above 20 degrees, even on the coldest nights. That’s not enough to keep full tropicals alive (zone 10), but it’s enough to keep zone 8b and maybe even zone 9a plants alive, no active heating required.

When I add in a ceramic heat emitter that automatically turns on when it hits 32 degrees, powered by a power bank that charges during the day from a solar panel, I can keep it consistently above 32 degrees, even on the coldest nights (which can hit 5 degrees). I may need two ceramic heat emitters on 5-degree nights; so far, I’ve only tested it as far down as 10 degrees, since we had a warmer than usual winter this year. But all those factors put together worked to keep tomato and common bean plants alive during a 10-degree night, so I think I can probably count on it to keep zone 10a trees alive! :smiley:

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Sounds like an awesome setup!
I had a small greenhouse and did the ceramic heater setup on a mechanical temperature switch.
Old Christmas lights are a good source of heat too, I used those inline with the heater and I always knew when the heater was on without having to open the door.

I was originally going to use an incandescent light bulb, but then I found out they only emit 98% of their energy as heat, while ceramic heat emitters emit 100% as heat for the same wattage, so I figured . . . why not go for energy efficiency? :wink:

Thank you! I’m glad you like my setup! It took a lot of experimenting and trials and errors, and I’m thrilled I finally have something that seems like it can work long-term, without any additional inputs. (Well, I may need to buy new greenhouse plastic every few years. I’ll have to see how that goes.)

I have AMAZING news! :smiley:

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Three of the nine Musa markkuana seeds I planted in that pot seem to have sprouted! YAY! I got three sprouts out of seven that I planted last year that came from the same batch, so I can officially say two things at this point:

  • These seeds are still viable after a year and a half. I stored them in the fridge, so that may have helped them maintain viability longer.
  • I will definitely buy from this Ebay seller again.

Last year, I transplanted my three sprouts immediately outside. They all died. This year, I am going to be smart (as opposed to idiotic) and leave them alone until they’re big enough to survive transplant shock.

Next year, I will direct sow more of those seeds directly in the ground in my greenhouse. Bananas seem very prone to transplant shock (at least, most pups I’ve tried so far have dropped all their leaves in response to their roots being disturbed even slightly), so I am starting to suspect that direct sowing will be a better way to go.

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That’s great! How long did they take to germinate? I’ve read some banana seeds can take over 3 months.

Are you using a shade cloth over the greenhouse in the summer?

I just bought some of these from the same Ebay seller:

Freshly harvested seeds of Musa velutina from the seller’s own plants, which consistently grew back in zone 7a as long as they were mulched well. And I know from the Musa markkuana sprouts that this seller knows how to harvest viable seeds. Sounds like a winner to me! :smiley:

Musa markkuana sounds interesting. Just like velutina without the splitting! Might get some of those for myself…

I’ve had those banana seeds in the greenhouse since January, so apparently it took about five months. Putting a lid on top seems to have been a necessity: the seller suggested putting the seeds ON TOP OF the soil, with a lid on top to keep the soil consistently moist and the humidity high. That seems to have been the way to go.

I’m not sure exactly how to replicate that with direct sowing, but maybe a living mulch? I’m wondering it if may work well to sow a whole bunch of peas with banana seeds in the middle of them. That way, as long as I water the peas, that may keep the humidity high and the soil evenly moist for the banana seeds. (And, let’s be real, I’m significantly more likely to keep the soil watered if there are plants that I care about there already.)

Good point that the greenhouse is going to get as scorching hot in the summer as the rest of my garden. And a lot of tropicals aren’t wild about 100 degrees of dry heat. Maybe keeping the plastic cover on year-round would be a good idea, since it would keep some humidity in there in summer, and that may be valuable.

I tend to think of shade cloth as “that thing you use when you haven’t figured out the right plants to use instead.” :wink: So I’d rather avoid it. Hmmmm, actually, now that I think about it, passionfruit vines climbing the metal framework would make for a nice, partially shaded space in summer and provide an extra layer of insulation in winter . . .

Moringa stenopetala on the west side of my greenhouse, in order to provide it some afternoon shade, too?

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I forgot you mentioned you were going to use it as a trellis, that should work!

I would not recommend keeping the plastic on through the summer.
When I was working at nurseries they would keep the hoop houses covered through the spring and by the time we reached 100°F days they were hitting 120°+ inside. You will need fans, and it will still feel pretty nasty.
At least that’s how it is here, you might get some different effects with your climate.