My skirret plants have flower buds on them, and have had them for months. That’s the weird thing. They just haven’t . . . bloomed. The flower buds on the umbels just sit there. I’ve never seen that happen before. My only guess is . . . not enough water to feel like investing energy into flowering? I dunno. It’s quite weird. They’ve been doing well otherwise.
Yeah, I remember reading in the Samuel Thayer book that skirret is closely related to water parsnip and very similar, and actually better.
We have a river near us with some plants that look exactly like water parsnips, so I examined them very carefully and determined with a 98% certainty that they are water parsnip, and a 99% certainty that they aren’t water hemlock. That’s not nearly certain enough to taste them, but it’s certain enough to walk back there and spend many, many, many hours being super extra careful and ID them with 100% certainty, if I ever want to.
Since I already have skirret, which seems to be doing fine in dry soil and is not an aquatic plant and has bigger roots that taste better and is otherwise very similar, I see no reason to get excited about water parsnip, and I probably won’t bother doing that. Mainly, I just wanted to be reasonably certain that I didn’t have to worry about those plants being water hemlock. I would rather not have water hemlock near me.
Lovage tastes like celery, only more so. It’s a very strong flavor, with extra bite. I have an acquaintance who loves celery, and she thought lovage tasted even better. I don’t personally like celery, but I’m growing it because it’s perennial and drought tolerant, and my toddler is the most non-picky eater I’ve ever met (yay, him!), so it may very well be something he will love to eat in a few years.
I’ve never heard of a tropical Apiaceae, but I bet you’ve researched the plant family more me.
Yeahhhhhh, “How do you select carrots for root flavor without killing them, anyway?” is one of those questions I keep trying to figure out. A year or two ago, someone on this forum said he was planning to dig his up carefully, slice off the side of a root (keeping the whole core intact), taste that part, and replant the rest if it was tasty. That seems like an interesting idea, just a whole lot of effort. Maybe that would work?
I actually foraged some recently to throw into my wildflower meadow that I’m trying to establish. I can’t remember if I added them yet or not, and if not then where those seeds would be lol
I mean common hogweed which is Heracleum sphondylium, native to the UK and Europe. I guess you may not find it where you are. I’ve never seen Heracleum maximum, is it edible?
Yes, a little but they have a much stronger flavour. I never tried eating the seeds past a couple of times but I want to experiment with them more.
Wait, Sam is eating Giant Hogweed? I have just heard it’s got high levels of the phototoxic sap and to stay away. I did research the history of common hogweed and it was originally used as the base of the Ukrainian soup Borchst (the beetroot version is just one of many versions that became popular). And I found a reference to the Polish eating giant hogweed but I never could back up that claim or figure out how they processed it/ate it.
I have no idea haha. I prefer it as a green vegetable rather than for seeds (but only for lack of experimentation!). The young stems and leaves are more tender than celery and more flavourful. You can also eat the curled up flower buds like broccoli. And of course the seeds. So one plant gives you multiple harvests throughout the year. I’m not sure about the roots, so maybe crossing with parsnip will make it the ultimate vegetable for roots and greens!
I haven’t looked into this in depth but I have just read it will readily cross with giant hogweed (heracleum mantegazzianum). When I researched this in the past it was much more as a forager than from the perspective of breeding as I wasn’t even a gardener then.
I would love to see a better quality image of that photo! I’ll edit the post soon and upload a couple myself from a book I have.
One thing I remember reading now actually is that the concentration of furanocoumarins (which make the plant phytophototoxic) change depending on how hot or sunny the day is and where the plant has been growing. For example a plant grown in a shady forest, on a cool and overcast day would have much lower levels then a plant in a field in the full sun. Just be mindful of hemlock water dropwert when in the forest or by water though!
You can cut the green tops off the main root and plant it. However, I have only seen youtube video and have not tried this yet. They showed leaving about 3/4 of an inch of the root attached to the greens…after planting, and re- rooting supposedly the carrot plant will go to seed. Ill do it this year, trial and error style. Ill be sowing carrots in about two weeks, its still to hot here in Arizona.
Generally, I would taste one or two of each colored root, leaving some to grow out for seed. I have grown up to 15 varieties and root colors of yellow, orange, red, purple, white with all sorts of root shapes…but not mixed as a swarm or grex. The yellow rooted tasted the best, with my soil so they are definitely keepers. Some of the orange root varieties are also tasty, so Im putying those together for sure. I started with only heirlooms, no F1 hybrids.
That is indeed very strange. A plant makes flower buds but doesn’t push further to open them? I’ve had this happen to squash where is just gave up female flower buds (Probably due to lack of energy or resources). But it’s doing well otherwise? so very strange indeed.
Indeed, both are even in the same exact genus, Sium.
Nice! I haven’t studied the Water Parsnip & Skirret Plant ID yet to be certain either. I’m still on the Apiaea Tribe of Edible Carrot Family Plants, Done Dill, Fennel, Parsley & now Doing Celery. The Apiaceae Family is TRULY HUGE! You want to be ESPECIALLY Careful with Oenatheae Tribe of Apiaceae Family plants, Water Hemlock and some Oenanthe species like Oenanthe crocata are poisonous.
Definitely take some pictures, even if you don’t know the ID of the plant exactly, you can still save some seeds to grow & examine more closely. Plus later on you may Eventually have 100% ID Confirmation but not have access to the seeds no more.
Interesting, perhaps you have a specially adapted skirret or the Tribe isn’t as water dependent as I thought. I wonder, if Water Parsnip Hybridizes with your Skirret, would that help determine you have 100% a Water Parsnip? Or can Skirret actually hybridize with other Genera in the Oenatheae Tribe? It be scary to know that Water Hemlock can Cross with Edible Relatives. Still Researching.
Interesting, I’ve read that Celery Leaves are Toxic in Large Amounts, but due to the STRONG Flavor, you’re unlikely to push thru eating enough to poison yourself. I wonder if Lovage is also similarly Toxic? or is it just Flavor alone that’s stronger? What part of Lovage is edible? The Seeds, Leaves, Stalks, Flowers, Root?
I still haven’t heard of Tropical Apiaceae either, I wonder if the Biannual Habbit of Going To Seed after Winter is what makes it difficult to adapt in climates without a winter? I can’t think of a Single Apiaceae Plant that doesn’t make seeds in a Biannual way after some Cold Temperatures. But I Probably haven’t looked hard enough.
Hmm… Would Grafting be worth the effort? Could we Pull a Carrot to taste & Graft the top onto another Carrot? I think taking a small bite seems like the most practical way to taste it without killing the plant. I’ve seen Radish with a Big Hole in it’s root still managed to go to Seed. Perhaps Carrot can do something similar? Perhaps just clear the soil to access the top of the root, take a knife or Drill device to remove a small pieces & take a Bite. If it taste bad, feed it to the chickens.
Altho I also wonder, Maybe we can have a Carrot Landrace for the Flavorful Seeds or Shoots? In that case, it wouldn’t be a problem if Wild Carrot (Aka Queen Anne’s Lace) Genetics gets into our Non-Root Carrot Landrace.
Nice! If any how, It shouldn’t be too hard to find more Wild Carrot & Start over again.
I’ve never tried either species, but yea According to Sam Thayer, Heracleum maximum is indeed edible.
Indeed it does have high levels of Phototoxins, He’s only eaten the Petioles of Giant Hogweed. I suspect the seeds may still be similarly edible. He says there is documentation for other above ground parts as food but no documentation for the roots as food. I wonder what Giant Hogweed x Typical Hogweed offspring would taste/look like? Is there benefit to Giant Hogweed Genetics for Crop Improvement?
Very interesting, gonna need to do some more digging for info. Have you asked other foragers around? Surely there are some foragers who eat Giant Hogweed besides Sam who only tried the petioles.
Interesting, so they have a similar flavor the celery? ufff I don’t like the flavor of Celery so this disapoints me. Hmm… are Hogweed leaves similarly poisonous in large amounts just like Celery leaves are? Are Celery Flower buds edible like Giant Hogweed too?
Wait, so are Parsnip greens not similarly edible too? I haven’t gotten to thoroughly researching parsnip yet.
Very fascinating, does that mean you might’ve actually foraged for the offspring? If they readily cross, there’s probably some forager who has eaten the offspring of the cross thining it was regular hogweed right?
I’ve also similarly started researching plants from a Forager perspective first, Gardening 2nd, Plant Breeding 3rd. It’s nice to know you come from Foraging Experience too! I think it realy changes the way you see gardening.
Speaking of which, is there truly a difference between Gardening & Foraging? It really feels like the same exact activity, just on different ends of the same spectrum. Every Gardening will benefit from Foraging Knowledge & Every Forager will benefit from Gardening Knowledge.
Indeed, Sam Thayer said the exact same thing. He also said to immediately wash any exposed skin after contact and to avoid gethering during Hot Sunny Weather. He also said sweat helps the juice spread & that he was unable to give himself the rash through dry-skin contact with unbroken plant surfaces or at night.
@Geoffrey Just Truly Amazing Photos! What Book are they From?
I’ve also seen the same thing done from other YouTubers (Altho it was more from a Regrow Grocery Store Veggies video).
Also are you only Growing Carrots for the Root? No seed flavor or Tasty Peeled Shoot Breeding efforts? Do you also have the wild Carrots around? And how do your carrots go to seed in such Hot Climates? Does your garden gives Hope to Tropical Apiaceae existing?
Ive only grown carrots for the roots. No wild carrots around, no other wild Apiaceae either. I sow seeds directly into the soil during the months of September and October if the soil temperature is good for germination. (We have to await for cool weather) The carrots plants form roots and can stay in the ground over the winter time here sometimes until June. Most will send up the flower spike and go to seed when the daytime temperature reaches 105 degrees. I have not specifically taken data for the timing of the seed to get produced, just generally observed it happening.
GOOD NEWS! I was wrong about my skirret plants not having flowered! I checked the umbels closely, and some of them now have fully finished and dried seeds on them.
I thought, “Huh?! How did that happen? I never saw any flowers!”
I examined the least mature umbels very closely, and discovered absolutely tiny little white flowers that are barely noticeable on some of them.
So . . . that explains it! They did flower and produce seeds for me! It’s just that the flower buds, flowers, and green immature seeds look almost exactly the same. (Laugh.)
So I can share some skirret seeds with anyone who wants some. VeggieSavage, I’m assuming I should set some aside for you. Anyone else who want some, PM me! We can see if we can set up a trade.
I really like sowing my carrot seeds in the fall, too. The tops usually die off in late December, but the roots stay just fine, and the tops regrow in late February. So they have plenty of time to get a decent size, and because they’re grown through the winter, I don’t have to water them. Plus, the roots taste way better in winter chill than in summer heat.
Hi Apiaceae fans! I’m looking for a seed steward for carrots for our seed program this year. I’m hoping to find someone who loves carrots and wants to be an ambassador for them within our community. Here’s a little about what that entails:
curate the mix(es) we distribute - decide what’s in and out, how many seeds per packet, that sort of thing
engage the community around growing your crop throughout the growing season, via this forum, emails, whatever else
seek out diversity within the crop – that can mean looking for folks doing adaptation projects, commercially available grexes, and USDA GRIN seedbank accessions, organizing grow outs of special seed lots, any other ideas you may have
(optional) package seeds in provided envelopes
If you’re interested in learning more, send me a message and we can set up time to talk.
I’ve never seen skirret seeds. Please do Take Pictures of your skirret plants. I’m super curious to see what you mean.
Nice! I might do the same when I start gardening. I’ve noticed that the Wild Carrots start ripening their seeds in Late August, just in time for Fall Season. So perhaps Fall sowing is what the species was adapted for?
I’ve heard they become sweeter like our Brassica Veggies. But are winter carrots as sweet as when they are cooked?
I would like it but I don’t have land nor the responsibility to manage such things. What about other Apiaceae Crops? I’ve sent in American Sweet Cicely into the Fukuoka Grab mix.
Someone on this forum said a few years ago that they are of the philosophy that whenever seeds come off the plant is the best time to plant them, because that’s probably when the plant expects them to be planted. This makes perfect sense with any plants that are wild, and probably with most cold hardy domesticated plants, as well.
In the case of highly domesticated summer annuals, that probably isn’t a good idea – squashes and beans have been selected for thousands of years to have seeds that will germinate as soon as they’re put in the ground in warm weather, so fall sowing them is likely to result in seeds that germinate right away, which you don’t want at that time of year.
But with anything cold hardy enough to grow through the winter that makes huge quantities of seeds from each plant . . . I see very few problems with the idea of just collecting seeds, scattering them around randomly, and ignoring them. It won’t work for summer annuals, but it seems to work great for winter annuals, winter perennials, biennials, and perennials, like peas, garlic, carrots, radishes, and kale.
Some seeds can stay on the ground for over a few months and sprout when the spring temperatures are favorable. Ive observed celery seed do this. Of course volunter tomato plants seem to always defy the odds as those seeds stay on the ground thru impossible conditions only to sprout and grow.
Carrots are the only Apiaceae crop I’m planning for, but if we received enough seed of any other species, I’ll create a separate mix for them. Oh, and celery, which @Kimzy is responsible for.
Id be happy to co-steward the seed if there aren’t any volunteers. I can grow carrots but would like to include @VeggieSavage to put seeds into packets… is that something we could partner with?
Im planting carrots now, for zone ten, then looking for seed after April 2025.
Coincidentally I just collected a bunch of my skirret seeds yesterday, but unfortunately it doesn’t look like I thought to take any pictures of the plant itself.
Perhaps Maybe? How would it work? Do all the Carrot seeds get sent to me so I can even them out into packets? if so isn’t that what the seed Stewart does anyways? I’m so confused, what I would do specifically?
WOW! That’s an incredible amount of Skirret seed! Was there anything you noticed about the Skirret you were growing? Like what kinds of traits did you select for?
Oh yea, I’d definitely love to get Skirret seeds! PM Me, maybe there’s something you’d like to get in exchange?
Interesting, when a plant expects to be planted vs when it germinates. I see so the seeds just wait dormant in the soil until conditions are right? SO we can either plant them & wait for right conditions or just wait for the right conditons & then plant them?
Some seeds also just sit there waiting on the Stem like wild carrot seeds. Sometimes even thru winter they still have seeds on them.
I’ve also seen this work super well for Summer annuals like Lambsquaters & Amaranth.
No worries, another GTS member volunteered to steward the carrot seed.
But if you still are considering, contact @anna for information and complete a steward volunteer form. All of the seed goes into one location first, to be logged in and checked for viability…then the seed can be sent to the steward to package…really the main responsibility is to interact with growers and answer questions throughout the growing season. GTS is always interested in increasing seed, and that the seed distributed is grown and allowed to go to seed again. Remember, adaption can only proceed as long as seeds are grown out and harvested each year. I was thinking @VeggieSavage would be a good steward sharing a wealth of species knowledge far and beyond the food and fruiting varieties abilities to cross, along with identification of seed and vegitative traits.
This is my first time growing skirret, and I got the start from a local nursery, so not much opportunity for selection yet. I’ve also never tried it, so hopefully I actually like it!
However I was drawn to it basically being a perennial carrot, and due to my space limitations I’d probably aim to select for high yield in my hot, dry environment (I do water it).
I know very little about how Apiaceae genetics work, so I’m not sure if I’d be likely to see much difference in the traits of the seeds once grown out. It likely didn’t outcross unless it crossed with some of my cilantro or dill which were relatively nearby.
I don’t like the flavor of Celery so this disapoints me. Hmm… are Hogweed leaves similarly poisonous in large amounts just like Celery leaves are? Are Celery Flower buds edible like Giant Hogweed too?
It’s just that the flower buds, flowers, and green immature seeds look almost exactly the same. (Laugh.)
