I’d like to grow grains for sidedish, but unfortunately the options here aren’t great. It’s either more typical cereals, that maybe aren’t the easiest to process for use (I do not have experience so maybe there are some that aren’t as hard) or quinoa, amaranth or rice which demand more heat than our growing season has. Quinoa and amaranth definetely have possibilities and maybe I’ll try them again as well, but after hearing about native americans growing and breeding lambquarters for bigger seeds, I was thinking maybe that might be one option. It already grows well here so there wouldn’t much more than sourcing seeds from varied locations and selecting. At least it would be more exciting going from wild to “novel” (not quite novel as it has been already domesticated by native americans and in India) crop.
Now the question is are there others that would be interested in taking part? You could take part by just contributing local seeds or taking part in grow-out/hybridization and selection. I was thinking this year just collect seeds and next year start making grow-outs. It could be that people gether seeds and add them to serendipity seedpack. They are so small that they hardly take up any space. This way people that get the serendipity pack could contribute seeds without any extra than just collecting seeds. If you want to take part, you could then either take seeds when you get serendipity seedpack or someone takes the seeds early next year and distriputes them to everyone that wants to take part. Same could be done also with good king henry that @malterod has already topic about.
Like said, my interest is mainly seeds, but everyone could select whatever they find useful. First objective would be just to create as diverse populations and from there try to find any trait that is usefull and perpetuate that. Personally I’m considering it like a treasure hunt. Going through punch of seeds with a sieve to possibly find there something that is just slightly bigger than others. Or something that has biggers seedheads. Etc. Who’s interested? It would be better to look (and mark) for possible sources early in the season as they might be harder to find when they are already dried up.
That’s what south Native Americans did, it’s called Quinoa , they selected for seeds & Quinoa Broccoli called Huazontle.
As for Amaranth, don’t you have Amaranth Weeds? They are very common & there’s almost certainly a species making a crap ton of seeds where you live. Cross them with Cultivated Amaranth (if both belong to Subgenus Amaranthus) but the other Subgenus Albersia is also worthy of domestication for greens! (Examples include Amaranthus tricolor).
I think it would be a great idea to Cross Quinoa with Lambsquaters. Another potential are
No, they also domesticated chenopodium album or possibly the other closely related in north america. I recently watched a long presentation about the lost native crops. Those domesticated lambquarters (or maybe goosefoot, but I suppose both are more general names applied to many species) and couple other native crops were replaced around 1000-1400 (if I remember correctly) when corn spread towards north.
Nope. It’s south american species and it’s too cold for it to become feral easily. They do selfsow, but with the competition they are unlikely to make seeds often enough to become weedy annual. I checked the local plant registry where people can report their sightings and of all amaranth species there are only some dozen sightings over last 60 years. None of quinoa. Ofcourse there are those that aren’t reported, but still that gives idea how rare it is. Most of those probably where only for some years and then disappeared. There where some sightings in local train track which I might check out if there is access to the area.
Maybe it’s one of those species that is the lost native american crop, hence larger seeds. Can’t remember what name was used, but it was somewhere north of the country. Could check if I can find the video about it.
It was easy to find the species was chenopodium berlandieri also goes with name goosefoot. So different species to what we have here, but looks very similar.
Chenopodium album is quite weedy in my region. Personally I am not bothered so much by it. I find it easy to remove and sometimes eat the leaves and shoots. As a cooking spinach, I find it quite good.
I have noted down previously that there have been cases of photosensibility with C. album in the last 10-15 years and some cases have been quite severe (hospitalization). Which compounds are causing this I believe is still unknown. Another thing to be aware of is that the plant accumulated nitrates and should be eaten in moderation during pregnancy and for small children.
Interesting… but Lambsquaters were domesticated for edible leaves? Hence how we got Chenopodium giganteum (Tree Spinach/Purple Lambsquaters), technically part of the Album complex.
Ah so Lambsquaters were part of the Eastern Agricultural Complex?
Check INaturlaist for where you live, I’m pretty certain if you live somewhere In Europe, there’s an Amaranth growing where you live.
Quinoa is very unlikely because unlike Lambsquaters they are harder to germinate I find (well at least from my experience of growing them both in pots).
Maybe but Chenopodiastrum occupies a different phylogenetic position from Chenopodium genus (Both same tribe at least). I don’t know how cross compatible it would be with Lambsquaters but it’s something I’d like to test. Maybe they were naturally bigger seeds or maybe some domestication effort remians? Idk but annuals tend to revert back to wild forms faster than perennials. But there’s a good chance Pawpaws & Mayapples have had some semi-wild forms still growing due to their perennial nature.
Yea that’s the exact one involved in Quinoa domestication. What’s funny is Chenopodium berlandieri is known to hybridize with Chenopodium album & thus what exist in the wild is a species complex of both species & other species. It’s known as Chenopodium ×variabile.
I wonder if this is due to the plants lack of forming a solid Mycorhhizae connection as a protective layer?
These where domesticated for seed. Lambquarters/goosefoot seems like more general term any related species so I wouldn*t say it was, but the species mentioned.
Still nope. There are none where I live and only handful within 100km. Even those are most likely there just year or 2. The summer is just toocool and short for volunteers to reliably make seeds most years.
I don’t know about quinoa domestication, but based on quick wikipedia search link to chenopodium berlandieri isn’t confirmed and other ancestors have been proposed. It might be interesting to try to cross, but I’m little doubtful of combability to our species Quinoa is grown in a small scale in the very south and there has been a lot of trials. So crossing with chenopodium album would have been logical step if that was possible. And chenopodium berlandieri maybe doesn’t have the necessary cold toleranca so I’m stuck with what I have.
Yes, it might mostly bother if ground is disturbed. I don’t know how it would do with no-till or with mulching, but at least it’s not perennial here. I’d appriciate if you saved some seeds if you have good exemplars growing in the perimeters.
I haven’t heard about photosensitivity. Personally I haven’t been affected by it with any other plants.
That’s good to know. Better not to grow it with high fertilization then. Not going to eat it in great quantities yet. I would assume that greater size in seeds would also lower the nitrate concentrations. I believe that’s what generally happens, with good and not so good combounds.
Crazy! Where do you live where it’s the season is this cold & short? Definitely sounds like you need to breed an Amaranth to survive your climate.
100% possible! All True Chenopodium Species hybridize easily, infact most if not all “Species” are Hybrids (or decedents of hybrid complexes). You can try this method for crossing both, bring both flowers together & let them exchange pollen like so.
Both are pretty much like the same species actually, they both hybridize frequently. Remember Chenopodium ×variabile is a naturally occuring Hybrid between Chenopodium album x Chenopodium berlandieri. Have you also checked your local area for any other Amaranthaceae plants? Plenty of edibles in that family that are very cold hardy (Or survive in short growing seasons), such as
I found contradicting evidence to this. To me it seems likely that it would have been done if it was possible or at least easy. So it doesn’t feel like it’s worth my time to try that.
Didn’t take me long to find this article. I don’t fully understand ploidy and don’t know which species has which, but seems to suggest me it’s more complicated that you’d think. Unless you crossed with a purple amaranth, it would be hard to say if the offspring were crosses just from looks. All species look alike and there is so much plasticity with their expression depending on where they are grown that you’d need dna test to see if you actually have a cross.
, they selected for seeds & Quinoa Broccoli called Huazontle.
