Common beans setting pods

Random question for you guys.

Do common beans have trouble setting pods in the heat? We’ve had temperatures of 90-100 degrees for most of the last month. That’s normal for our summers, though, and common beans did just fine for me in 2021 with the same amount of heat.

I have some common bean plants flowering right now, and they’ve had flowers for weeks, but I haven’t seen any pods forming yet. That seems . . . odd.

I was concerned that maybe it was a pollination issue, since some of them are under mosquito netting to keep out pollinators (it’s a variety I’m growing for somebody else that I agreed to keep pure), but don’t common beans usually self-pollinate without any help?

Then there’s another variety I’m growing that is covered in flowers, pollinators should have access to it, and I don’t see any pods yet. I’m a bit concerned.

Shouldn’t I be seeing pods by now? Or am I just being impatient?

What do you recommend I do, to get those plants to make pods for me?

I would guess compination of heat and drought. Sometimes it might be right on the edge and one year is just slightly more favourable than other. The way I understand they self-pollinate and after emasculating some flowers I do wonder how they would actually outcross. Pods form really fast and I have been collecting them already some time even though they only started flowering mid july. Maybe takes a week to have them visible after pollination.

It’s been a month since they start flowering, and no sign of pods. :frowning:

They’ve had a fair amount of water (I’ve been nicer to them than most of my plants), so it’s probably not that. Or it is that, and they’re too finickypants. If it’s the heat, maybe they’ll start setting pods in October, when the heat finally lowers? (Which is right before the first frost date?)

Sigh . . . that wouldn’t be great.

I’ve read Common Beans (Phaseolus vulgaris) & Runner Beans (Phaseolus coccineus) fail to set pods at temperatures above 90°F (Probably due to high heat making pollen not viable or some other issue). Tepary Beans (Phaseolus acutifolius) can set pods at temps above 105°f (Cuz pollen still is viable at such high temps).

I think a Common Bean x Tepary Bean landrace would do well in your climate.
Otherwise if you’re still growing just pure Common Beans (P. vulgaris), give it a shade cloth or grow it under a tree.

Plants will eventually make pods when the heat cools off a bit. Common Beans actually prefer the ideal zone, temps between 7.2°C (45°f) to 26.7°C (80°f). Which is cool summer weather, typical of late summer & early fall.

I wonder if trellising beans might have a secondary benefit of making the undersides of the beans cooler (because they’re being shaded by the top leaves, which are in full sun)? If so, maybe that would be a way to put them in full sun while keeping the flowers and roots in shade, which they may prefer. That may be worth trying!

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hmm… I think the plants naturally already do this well except maybe runner beans that have long racemes of flowers, Common beans racemes are very short thus are better at hiding among the leaves.

People also use shade-cloths for this very purpose, especially in areas with intense sun. Tomatoes strongly benefit from these conditions, I’m sure beans would also. Except Tepary beans, which will set under these intense conditions no problem, meaning the genetics are available in tepary beans to breed/landrace garden your way out of this issue.

Sadly, I’ve been having troubles with tepary beans, too. I was so hopeful, but they seem to find it just as difficult to grow here as the common beans do! I don’t get it . . . :sob: I wonder if the available tepary bean varieties have been grown in places with a lot more water, so they aren’t as well-suited to being dry-farmed in an arid summer as the species originally was.

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Yo… what if they were mis-identifed as Tepary beans? or maybe your Utah Sun is still somehow too intense even for Tepary beans???
They could’ve been grown in more wet areas but I would think at least something should’ve remembered it’s ancestral DNA no?

I’ve also heard they need a good soaking of water 1st, then they alright for the whole growing season (I’m sure better than alright with very good water-retention mulch like straw/grass clippings).

So far, I’ve been finding that tepary beans seem to behave exactly the same as common beans for me: they stay very small, barely set any pods, and I’m lucky to eke 10 beans out of a single plant. This, even when I’m generous enough to water them once a week! (If I don’t water them at all, they just die.)

I don’t get it. They’re supposed to be so drought tolerant, and yet they never behave like they’re drought tolerant at all. I don’t get it. It’s very frustrating.

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hmm… maybe they aren’t tepary beans at all? Dun Dun DUNNNNN :scream: :sweat_smile:
Do you know how to ID Common Beans from Tepary Beans?

Tepary beans tend to look noticeably different from common beans: smaller and flatter. I bought the Joseph Lofthouse landrace tepary beans, thinking there would be a whole bunch of phenotypes that would work well in a climate similar to mine. There were a whole bunch of phenotypes, and they looked super cool going into the ground, but then they didn’t do well for me! :sob: They behaved exactly like the common beans: barely struggling to grow, reluctantly putting out maybe one or two pods with one or two seeds each after our August rain, and that was it. And that was the ones I was nice enough to water once a week!! The ones I didn’t water at all were dead by July. And so were the ones I watered once a month. I don’t get it. :sob:

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Ah I see, yea those were probably tepary beans that just weren’t adapted to your climate. Common Beans also come in very small seed sizes too (Especially the small white salvadorean bean), which is why I asked to clarify.
From what I’ve learned, the main difference is Tepary Beans have flatter pods (constricted on edges) vs Common Beans typically more cylindrical. Otherwise they are very similar, especially since they are cross-compatible too!

I also don’t get it, you might want to try the wild tepary beans (I’d be suprised, If even those fail for you).
Anyways have you tried the Horsegram (Macrotyloma uniflorum) yet? I’m super curious how the most dry adapted edible legume does for you. Have you also tried moth bean (Vigna aconitifolia)?

I haven’t tried horse gram yet, but I intend to next year. It’s supposed to be the most drought tolerant edible legume period, which sounds promising for me.

Is moth bean particularly drought and heat tolerant? If so, I definitely should try it next year, too!

Yeah, the Joseph Lofthouse tepary beans must not have been adapted to my climate. I thought they probably would be because we both live in Utah, but he flood-irrigates regularly and lives at a much higher elevation where it’s cooler and the growing seasons are shorter, so he probably isn’t selecting for the drought and heat tolerance I need.

The frustrating thing is, I also got tepary beans from Native Seeds Search, and they didn’t do any better! Is it possible they’re watering them regularly, too? I don’t know. I just find it a bummer that the species is supposed to be super drought tolerant, and it hasn’t seemed to me to be so far. I imagine I just need to find the right seeds, so I’ll keep on trying.

On the bright side, I did find some lima beans last year that did well in my climate. I planted about a hundred seeds of twelve different phenotypes, and only six plants survived, but they represented four phenotypes, and one of the plants produced about a hundred seeds all by itself, so — that’s promising! (The other three eked out about three or four seeds each.) I forgot to plant lima beans on time this year, but I am hoping to plant them again next year.

I’m sure I can find common beans and tepary beans that will do well here; I just need to keep on trying everything I can find until something clicks. So far, my most promising common bean has been a locally grown pinto bean I found, which is nifty — I got about twelve seeds out of one plant last year, and about six out of two more. Not enough to eat, but good enough to try planting them again, and hoping they will produce a lot for me.

It’s also noteworthy that I saw someone in my neighborhood last week who has runner beans and common beans growing abundantly and producing tons of seeds. She saves her own seeds every year, and she gave me some. Apparently they haven’t had trouble setting pods for her! And her beans are in mostly full sun all day, even the runner beans.

Now, she says she waters them every day, so they aren’t adapted to the growing conditions I want to put my beans in: I want to water them once a week, if I have enough time and I’m feeling generous, and less often than that if I don’t or am not. Still, heat tolerant and not drought tolerant is a start. I will happily try her seeds, probably in morning sun and afternoon shade, and see if I can find some that are willing to become drought tolerant and produce lots of seeds.

I am noticing that a lot of the people in my neighborhood who love gardening put their plants on a daily sprinkler or drip irrigation system, and that really concerns me. It means we don’t have any locally adapted landraces that can handle our summer rainlessness if tapwater ever becomes unavailable, which it would in a long-term emergency. It makes me feel it’s even more important for me to work on adapting these crops to work for our climate, so that I can share seeds when people around me need them.

I really want to get beans that are happy to work with my climate, rather than against it. Those are such an important source of protein, which is something we’re going to need in my neighborhood if grocery stores and tapwater and other modern conveniences go down. Even if that never happens, having locally adapted landraces is important so I can hand seeds to people in my neighborhood who aren’t interested in spending a lot of time on gardening, and give them the ability to grow food that will thrive without much care. That seems important and valuable for everybody. :beans:

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What is your soil like? Do you amend it in some way? Mulch? pH?

It is surprising that you’re having better luck with lima beans than tepary beans, and it makes me think heat is not the only factor. Tepary beans were bred in areas with highly alkaline soils, which is what I would assume you have– but Lima beans were originally bred in areas with acidic soils.

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I have highly alkaline soil. As evidence, blueberries do not like it here. :sweat_smile: I added deep wood chip mulch to the area where I put the lima beans, which may have acidified the soil a bit, but I doubt it made all that much difference. The tepary beans went into an area with only a thin layer of mulch, so it was definitely our regular old alkaline pure-sand soil. Which they’re supposed to like. And the tepary beans in a space without any mulch at all just died. It’s bizarre.

You have so got to! I’m excited to see how they do in your climate.

Yes! It’s the most drought/heat tolerant cultivated Vigna spp., there might other wild species more drought/heat tolerant & surely an even more drought/heat tolerant species/variety could be bred.

Unlike the East Coast where climate is very similar throughout each state, Utah is very diverse in climate, moutians make a HUGE Climatic difference (This probably also explains why there’s many different species filling a small niche).
And just like species fill a small niche, Landraces also fill a small niche too! In otherwords the same concepts that make a species, also make a landrace too.
Species are like landraces made by nature & Landraces are like species made by humans.

That probably explains it, that little extra water can really make/break your success.
Do you mulch your beans? How so? Mulching allows to go without watering for much longer.

I feel tepary beans would do very well, if pre-soaked, well watered after sowing (Or transplanting) & then applying a good mulch layer to retain as much moisture as possible.

ooh! This is interesting point, so does that means/imply Tepary Beans were bred in high bacterial dominant soils vs Lima Beans were bred in Fungal dominant soils?

I just noticed how Acidic soils strongly correlate with Fungal dominant soils & Alkaline soils strongly correlate with bacterial dominant soils.

This would also explain why blueberries are picky about soil PH, most gardeners don’t bring the fungi they evolved with that would change the PH for them.

hmm…, perhaps they got cooked in the intense sun somehow? Or perhaps they couldn’t form a fungal/bacterial connection quick enough?
Regardless, I think this means you should mulch more!

Oh, that’s a really interesting observation, bacterial/fungal dominated soils!

Yeah, I definitely need to mulch more. I ran out of wood chips last fall, and I haven’t been ready to order another ChipDrop since then. :sweat_smile: So a lot of beds in my garden are in desperate need of more mulch now. I’m hoping to have the permanent space for all future ChipDrops set up in the next month or so, so I can get another load of wood chips in the spot that won’t block my husband’s view of the mountains. :winking_face_with_tongue: (He really likes that beautiful view, and he doesn’t want it blocked by a mountain of wood chips — I can understand why!)

Time to grow some mulch in place, what weeds can you chop & drop?
Some trees work perfectly for this, here Mimosa make fantastic chop & drop.
Your Alfalfa seems to love your soil/climate conditions, make it a chop & drop crop to spread mulch where you need it. Or even more convinent is to just plug in tepary beans where you cut back on the alfalfa, replacing crops when needed. This way, you don’t even have to move mulch around, it grows where you need it.

Heh. Yeah, my alfalfas and amaranths make great chop-and-drop. Bindweed’s pretty good chop-and-drop too, but I want to get rid of it (it’s way too invasive). I’ve certainly been chopping-and-dropping my weeds. The thing is, they don’t make nearly enough biomass to even begin to give me enough mulch. Successful weeds in my climate tend to be mostly stem, with small leaves.

Most of my chop-and-drop biomass is currently coming from the enormous Siberian elms near my house, and those things have turned out to be pretty great for that purpose. Great enough that I’m mostly mollified to their unwanted presence right near my house’s foundations (which their roots have already damaged twice, necessitating expensive repairs). I want them removed for the safety of my house, but I can’t afford to hire a professional, and they’re much too tall for for anyone other than a professional to remove, so . . . for now, I’m taking the attitude of, “Well, at least they’re some chop-and-drop mulch!” :sweat_smile:

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I just found a new even more desert adapted Bean species, the slimjim Bean (Phaseolus filiformus). It’s a rare species in California but more common in mexico.
Also lots of these wild desert plants do serious seedbanking, they emerge after a good rain or monsoon season. Makes me wonder how many seeds are seedbanking in your soil right now.
I don’t know if tepary beans do this, wild ones probably do but I do know Slimjim bean does.

So is it annoying to chop & drop? Invasive almost doesn’t apply if it’s easy to chop & drop right? but I guess if you mow down the whole thing & layer a BUNCH of plant material as mulch, eventually you’ll starve it out.
If your neighbors bag up their fall leaves to trow out is another good resource of mulch.

Ah… as is the limitations of a desert climate. Still there are plants that defy this limitation/selection pressure.