Different attitude on what's hard (Biannual Root Crops)

2022-07-17T07:00:00Z
[this post is from a discussion inside the Thinkific course, in response to the ‘Easy to Hard’ categories.

I see beets, carrots, onions, parsnips, and turnip listed as hard and for me that don’t figure. Those tap root biannuals to my experience are the easiest thing to land race, excluding things that you grow from fruit or seed anyway.

What’s nice about the biannual taproots is that you just plant a crop like normal, harvest like normal, and then rebury the best ones where you want to make crosses and auto seed another patch.

What’s nice is that you can grow, then can select based on final crop performance, and finally you just plop the roots in the ground, next spring you have huge shrubs of seed.

Here is a patch of carrots I am going to eat, or pick best roots for burying.

It was sowed by fallen seed from last year’s seed crop; e.g. I was messy. I place carrot flowers on the edges of my garden near favored neighbors so the pretty flowers make my garden fancy. I like that these patchs train carrots to germinate in early spring with no irrigation of care in weird mulch.

Here is this year’s carrot flower bloom, with some lofthouse pepper plants in foreground for scale.

I might get a gallon of seed off this patch. They are a couple dozen carrots burried in about 16 minutes last fall, the most diverse and prettiest of hundreds. Mostly excluding the yellow and white carrots, which I am biased against, I keep one or two for diversity, but they have to be otherwise perfect. Hoping the purple trait continue to through more interesting combinations with dark orange going forward.

I opine that such are excellent plants to start with.

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2022-07-18T07:00:00Z

[Joseph Lofthouse]
A number of my breeding projects ended up relying heavily on feral, weedy plants. They grow so prolifically, that they create lots of diversity, even in the mostly inbreeding species.

[Ray W]
In addition to differences in winter weather what might make it easy for me is the large amounts of mulching my gardening style favors?

Somebody with a slightly longer growing season would have a slightly different list too.

Lettuce is another one, where sure it doesn’t out cross much, but its easy to plant a thousand a thin them to find distinctive looking plants, I think in my lettuce patch I have a few crosses that have occured; even though one of them ended up with a comdeically terrible leaf structure. And it’s as easy to save seed from as anything. In my garden it is feral. Leads to the following super easy protocall: Let is be feral, but if you recognize a ‘known type’ kill most of them before the flower.

Yet listed at harder than potatoes which I cannot even keep alive.

Its very subjective, one factor is that I really really like taproots as a vegetable type.

[Joseph Lofthouse] on July 18, 2022
That easy/hard list is definitely subjective, arbitrary, and capricious.
With my super-cold winters, outdoor overwintering of beets, carrots, onions, potatoes, or turnips often fails. Overwintering them indoors likewise frequently fails. Thus they got a “hard” designation.

With onions, I have the option of storing them overwinter on a shelf, or in the ground. The genetics seem incompatible with each other, so I have to choose between storage conditions. I could have classified “onions” as easy.

Parsnips reliably overwinter outdoors. I could have called them easy.

I called cabbage “easy”, but I can’t overwinter the plants, so I should have called it hard. But it’s the same species as annual broccoli, so they got lumped together.

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I would definitely agree that biennial root crops could be anything from very easy to very hard, depending on how cold your winters get.

In general, I’m thinking that perennials that aren’t hardy enough for your winter temperatures would be even harder, especially if they tend to be large plants, like trees.

And yet, as if I am a glutton for punishment, I am still planting carob and moringa seedlings. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: All I need is to find one precocious plant of each species that can produce seeds in its first year. (Or two, if they’re not self-compatible.) Come on, trees! :seedling:

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This thread has dwindled a bit, but it seems the best place to ask my question: is there a breakdown of landrace difficulty by just outcrossing rates? If I’ve come across it in the courses, it has leaked out of my slightly overloaded head.

I’ll happily defer to someone who has the data clear in their head, but I seem to recall a pretty good account of outcrossing rate by crop in the course. If so it wouldn’t seem much of a stretch to categorize them accordingly.

I’m guessing that categorization exists somewhere, but again I’ll defer

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This is adapted from the tables in Landrace Gardening (book), that’s all I can think of that exists, but surely on the internet somewhere there must be a list of all the species ranked by outcrossing %? Love to see it if you find it.
Ease of Landrace Development - Sheet1.pdf (22.3 KB)

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