Encouragement Needed!

General Discussions
1

I am struggling to get myself to plant the landraces that I’ve acquired. The way I’ve gardened in the past is more similar to the STUN method than modern gardening. I do use compost in my soil and I do water, but otherwise do not do anything else for my plants—survival of the fittest, so landrace gardening appealed to me even more.

However, my backyard is a postage stamp so I invested in Greenstalk vertical planters which do require high quality soil, daily watering and regular fertilizing. Across the street there is some land that my city owns and maintains but does not use. A former neighbor who lives across the street turned it into a guerrilla garden. But he lives across the street and stretched his garden hose across the street to water. I live in the US SE zone 9a, so it gets really hot here, already in the 90s often and HUMID no matter how hot.

I transplanted some squash and okra plants earlier this year. All of the okra died and most of the squash from lack of water. So I’m struggling with the concept of not watering, not amending the poor sandy soil and not babying the plants at least at first until they get well established, or pre-sprouting. Pretty much my entire garden died last year (raised beds) even with amended soil and regular watering. It gets so hot that sometimes I have to water twice a day.

Most of what I plan to plant in my STUN garden are already landraces or varieties supposed to be accustomed to the kind of weather I get. But I’m still struggling with the concept that I’m likely going to lose most of the plants. I am stuck in the scarcity mindset when it comes to seeds due to having issues getting plants far enough to save seed in the past and many of the landraces being difficult or expensive to acquire. I’m worried even if I plant a ton that nothing will survive, especially because I put off starting the seed so late in the season.

I’m trying to keep myself from amending the soil because I do want to get landraces accustomed to the local soil, and realistically it is difficult enough to water that I know I will not be able to do it regularly.

I’m looking for words of encouragement from anyone willing to offer them to help get me past the block I currently have about just doing it!

I’m also hoping for some insight into how much I should expect to lose, so I can set realistic expectations for myself, or any advice y’all have for me.

Thanks y’all so much!

8 Likes
2

You don’t have to garden in the stun style. If you want to help out the plants, especially in the earlier generations, that’s fine.
It may take some time to find the right microclimates for each crop.
I grow in a similar stun/ zero input style. Some years I lose a lot, other years are great. For me, beans and okra always do well. I also direct seed everything.
With the planters you are using you will likely need to water, anything raised is going to dry out a lot faster.

(Sorry, I misread what you were saying and now see you do water)

2 Likes
3

I would try not to use transplants. They are suscebtible to transplant shock, more so when conditions are tough. It’s easier to help direct sown to establish by giving a little water early on. It doesn’t take them long before they’ll have their roots deep down.

5 Likes
4

I think you asking for encouragement is so beautiful, we need more people to ask for what they need! Its so scary to think of loosing all your hard work, but those survivors, will lead to stronger survivors in future generations… i think with hot and drought direct sowing maybe your friend to get the deepest tap roots, although some things do need a babying, some more than others, letting plants have a bit of struggle in the beginning prepares them for what they need…. If i were you and had the fear I might choose one crop that i do baby or take care of extra through the whole season, ideally something that should do well like beans…..it seems like you need landrace gardening deeply, you need things to adapt with you, this years scarcity maybe tomorrows abundance!!!

I also would be researching techniques that indigenous people in your area or similar climate grow food with the droughts, obviously poly cultures come to mind and I dont live in a dry area so i dont have experience or knowledge but perhaps some of those terracotta pots you bury and fill with water every couple days could be helpful for you?!
We are all here with you killing hundreds of plants, waiting for those survivors that will feed future generations!!! Please let us know how it goes for you!!

3 Likes
5

Have you got a good quantity of seeds to start with? Could you plant only a portion and freeze/store the rest for future years? I personally keep a back up of everything and do not STUN until I can reliably produce seeds. Even then, STUN might not be total neglect but “as much neglect as I get away with to get a decent crop and seed production”.
Good luck!

5 Likes
6

Thanks y’all for your encouragement and advice so far!

@JinTX I water the plants I have planted in my backyard. I have to water the Greenstalks and it’s not that much more effort to water the few raised beds that I have at the same time, so most of the time I do. I do have a fair amount of beans/cowpeas and okra to try out. Do you recommend soaking them or pre-sprouting them? Or is it just best to leave them to sprout whenever nature gives them the right environment to do so?

@JesseI Yeah, I ended up with the transplants because I realized I couldn’t fit most of them in my garden, so it was worth trying. Two or three have survived so far, but haven’t grown at all since transplant despite having been transplanted like two? months ago? (I have a terrible sense of time). But I already have a ton of gourd/squash seeds that I pre-sprouted than I’m gonna transplant because I couldn’t do anything else with them, but I’ll transplant them much younger just after they get their firt or second true leaves so hopefully less transplant shock. I had planned to water the initial transplants at first until established, but circumstances kept me from doing so. I also have a TON of left over seedlings because last year everything I grew died, and I was paranoid about ending with nothing in my garden, so I started extra as well as a number that I direct sowed. My struggle is that I do not seem to have much success with direct sowing, which is what is recommended for landrace gardening lol

@Taja Thank you so much for your words of encouragement! I hadn’t thought to research indigenous practices, so thank you for mentioning that! My partner told me he had heard a quote from someone that was a famous farmer or gardener or something, and they said something along the lines that Despite being successful, they still lost 90% of their plants. The key to being successful was to just keep planting more.

@Julied For some crops I have plenty of seeds. For others, it feels like I don’t. Despite having gardened for years, I’ve never been able to be successful enough save seeds for more than one season–more due to life circumstances interfering than crops just straight failing. So I don’t really know what a good quantity of seeds is for the various plants since it varies so widely. I do save some portion back in case of total failure, but I feel like that won’t be enough. I think the biggest issue is that realistically, I cannot water the STUN crops on any regular basis for a variety of reasons that can’t really be solved, particularly during the hottest times. I’m frustrated with myself because I put off the planting so late in the season and it’s already had heat spells of 95+ degrees. I’m tempted to say I just need to wait until next season and plant earlier when it’s “ideal”, but I’ve learned that for myself if I “wait” for the right time, it will never get done, and it’s better to just do it when I have the energy, time, and motivation.

3 Likes
7

1000% something I heard once along those lines that ill never forget is the difference between a good gardener and an ok gardener is the good gardener has killed a lot more plants lol, just an opportunity to try something else in my mind!

5 Likes
8

I just stick okra seed in the ground and walk away.
My main okra growing area was the previous foundation of a greenhouse. The dirt there is mixed full of gravel and decomposed granite. It’s in full sun and dries out quickly in summer. The only thing that grows there is bermudagrass, wild lettuce weeds, and okra. Okra loves neglect.

Sometimes I even throw it into empty spaces in the garden, leaving the seeds on the soil surface. Doing that I do see less successful germination, but the plants that do grow always do well.

I’ve also noticed when I plant okra it doesn’t really “grow” much until we hit the 100°F+ days. Maybe it spends all that time putting down roots.
So if you direct seed and it pops up and doesn’t seem to be doing much just give it time.

1 Like
9

Do you do deepwatering? I like to go for it in the greenhouse and give plants water a couple of times in a row , so it gets the chance to go deeper where the sun and wind have less effect and temperatures are more stable. Roots need to be trained to look down there. And plants inclined to do so genetically will have an advantage.
Getting some deeprooting comfrey around can also help your plants. It brings water up from deeper layers and sweats it out. You can cover with the foliage around the plants you do like.
Maybe tips that are not very appropriate to your situation…

But as Joseph says, save seeds and plants will adapt to your style of gardening. Keep going however you need to keep going, because you will need some seed next year. With that in mind even few seeds will be very resilient to your situation and some new gene-inflow can make it even more interesting. Maybe look for people who grow in even harder conditions, what and how they manage.

Good luck and keep us posted, we’re a helpful bunch!

3 Likes
10

Hi, Ermarie.

You live in subtropical, consider that most advice you get comes from temperate regions, so they are often not suitable. Also, the beauty of the adapting gardening is that it adapts to whatever you do; fancy good soil and frequent irrigation? Your plants will thrive in it. You can’t take care of them? As long as you get a few survivors, they’ll eventually thrive too. (Hint: your first priority is to get a few survivors.)

Then, I’m not sure how is your land, that could be the source of your troubles, because not every substrate is adequate. For example, potting mix drains too much, especially in the heat and sun. For dryland gardening you need a good percentage of clay, and plants adapted to the raining pattern. You can grow more thirsty plants just by growing fewer per square meter, but the key is the frequency of the raining, how many weeks can the plants survive until the next rains.

Another insight is that if you are going to work with selection, the more you have to select from, the better, and this begins at the amount of seeds. Unless it is a rare and valuable seed, just pour seeds many times more than you are used to, then, when they grow and get in touch, clear the weakest with small scissors, your first tool for driving selection. Keep selecting every time they touch again. Actually, they grow better when there are so many seeds sprouting together, since they make a canopy that protects the set.

If nothing else, just keep trying! You either get a good crop, or a good lesson if you pay attention and are willing to accept feedback and learn from your failures.

4 Likes
11

You may want to consider adapting to one thing at a time. Based on what you’ve said, I’d initially go with native soil, then drought.

I tell myself to do this every time, but I don’t follow my own advice.

I have two garden areas. One is a dry garden, where I just dump seeds in the ground in early spring and walk away. Heavy clay soil, no rain between May and August, temps upwards of 100 degrees F during this period.

Survival is low. Last year I got a few tomatoes (24 planted, 18 survived, 6 fruited), a handful of beans, and maybe half a dozen little corn cobs with bad pollination (planted late June, so handicapped from the start). This year I planted many of their descendants in the main garden–same conditions, but under woodchip mulch.

From my perspective sand is easier. You’re dealing with a lower water horizon but it’s more predictable and the roots can follow the water more easily. Plant deep, in pits if possible, zai pits (pits with a layer of compost and mulch) might work. Possible waffle garden. If there is humidity there might be dew, learn to collect and channel it toward your plants.

If you do corn, plant about 6 inches down. It will emerge slowly but it will be stronger and already have deep roots.

Don’t even think about watering squash until they are showing drought stress early morning. I started zucchini on one gallon of water per seed, watered about once a month so not entirely dry. They produced a flush of small squash each time I watered rather than continuous production. Watermelons did great with no water, but they did have shade in the afternoon. Water everything well when planted and let them do their thing.

Your production is going to be different than you’re used to. Fruits might be smaller, harder, tastier. They may produce only one fruit. They may produce a lot at once and then die. They may produce very few seeds.

Consider planting a fall garden. If you’re in zone 9, you have enough time if you plant in August.

5 Likes
12

@AbrahamPalma My local soil is actually worse than potting mix! It’s sandy soil. You make a good point about adapting to my gardening, but my goal is to have plants that need as little tending as possible, especially in the heat of the summer when I am unable to do so for medical reasons.

@Lauren Wow! Thank you so much for the encouragement especially when it comes to sandy soil being a positive thing! I’m gonna look into what you’ve suggested!

2 Likes
13

My old property was essentially sand and rock. I learned to grow in that environment, so I’m struggling with the switch to clay.

Your water horizon may be 10-20 inches down, but if your plant roots can reach it, you’re ahead of the game. Mulch to prevent evaporation. Plant when possible for afternoon shade. Plant sweet potato slips to shade your soil. I use them to improve the soil by leaving the roots to rot in the ground over the winter, but I’m not sure how that would work in your zone.

2 Likes
14

The solution is the same in both sand and clay, add more organic matter in the soil.

In clay it improves porosity, drainage, nutrient availability.

In sand it improves water and nutrient retention.

@Ermarie I understand your goal is to achieve adapting the plants to the soil.
I think a good step towards that would be slightly and temporarily improving the soil with compost and mulch for now and then allow each generation of plants to adapt as the soil gradually changes or returns to a less amended state.

3 Likes
15

Fine.
In that case, I would attempt to adapt it in two steps. First step, still watering, so they become adapted to the soil. Second step, once they look like they grow well with watering, reducing watering progressively in each generation.

David the Good, who grows in Florida, says that when your soil is sandy and the temperatures high, the natural ecosystems have the organic matter mostly over ground, not so much life under the surface. He managed to replicate it with native yams, which are already adapted to the climate.

1 Like
16

@Lauren How does mulch working with direct sowing though, wouldn’t it keep the seeds from being able to grow? Would I just move it out of the way after sowing until the plant has sprouted and grown above the mulch? Or just wait to mulch everything until the seeds are spirited and established?

Luckily the spot I’m using does have afternoon shade! And I have a TON of sweet potato slips that i can plant right now! Thank you so much for the recommendations!

@JinTX Thank you for the recommendations, I appreciate it and plan to see if they work!

@AbrahamPalma Thank you so much for that information, it was really helpful! It’s good do hear that I don’t need to worry about mixing organic matter into the soil itself. Do you think that planting sweet potatoes might be a good substitute for his native yams? I forgot I have a ton of extra slips I could plant to help cover the ground!

2 Likes
17

When I use mulch I don’t spread it very thick. Just a thin layer (maybe 1/4"-1/2" thick) over the top of the soil, just enough to hold a little moisture and keep the surface temps a little lower.

So when I direct seed in that I just make a little open spot where I plant the seed, and even if it ends up covering it is not so much that a seed like okra or squash couldn’t push through.

1 Like
18

Sadly, it is not guaranteed to succeed with different varieties. For example, I’ve been trying to grow melons in dryland, since I heard that melons can be grown that way in my location. After several failures, I was told that the varieties for dryland farming are different, I was trying to grow melons that weren’t draught tolerant without irrigation, no surprise it didn’t work. This time I have melon seeds that have been grown without irrigation, but in a much easier location. Let’s see.

The same goes for tomatoes. The ancient varieties of tomato were very small, but thrive in a desert climate. The modern tomato is nothing alike and can’t survive without humongous watering.

Maybe, I don’t know, you could adapt some sweet potatos, but I think it might be easier to start with the native one and start your hybrid selection game with the crop that already fares well.

1 Like
19

You could also cross those dryland varieties with the irrigated varieties and then start your selection from the offspring.

2 Likes
20

If you’re using sweet potatoes to fix the soil or cover it, as opposed to using them as a crop, I wouldn’t worry too much. In my experience, planted under deep mulch they had few tubers, but lots of massive feeder roots that ran out in all directions. They went deep, so I probably missed a lot of the tubers. But lots of root mass and loads of surface runners, totally unwatered under maybe 6 inches of woodchip mulch. I just save enough roots to start over the following year.

Tomatoes did about the same, lower production of smaller fruit. I did transplant the tomatoes, but watermelons, squash, beans, sorghum and corn came right up through the mulch when planted into the soil underneath. If you’re concerned, put the mulch on later. You risk losing much of your initial watering to evaporation, so experiment with it.

Regular melons do not do well with drought, although some varieties are bred for it. Watermelon seems to thrive on dryland. I gave everything a gallon of water when planted, whether from start or seed.

Most of this seems unchanged with clay, but I’m having to start over with a lot of things because my dryland adapted, sand adaped seeds don’t do well in clay.

2 Likes