I can attest to the goodness of this mix in my heavy clay conditions. From the description it appears to have been grown landrace style for several seasons in Oregon. The only plants that came up, survived, and are setting pods for me so far (though there is likely still some time) are from it.
I grew scarlet runners here in western nc. Got very hot this summer. I got only a handful of seeds as frost looms near.
1 Like
“Rhondda Black” produced well for me last summer (very hot for England) and this summer (still pretty warm but not as exceptionally so). I don’t have a record of actual temperatures, though. And by chance I planted them somewhere that they get shade on the roots in the late afternoon/evening (they’re east of a taller raised bed), which might help. What I’ve also noticed is that if it’s warm and dry and I don’t water it, it won’t set beans.
“Black Knight” has also done well for me but as it’s a drying type (I mean, I guess you could eat it younger but it was pretty stringy when I tried) I haven’t actually tasted it yet.
1 Like
Coccineus produce well for me all summer long and take a couple minus degrees (easily down to -3 C) at the tail end of the season, giving up long after any other Phaseolus beans. I’m barely south of the Polar Circle in Sweden. Cool summers. Maybe they just really don’t like heat. Like kale…
1 Like
I have been growing scarlet runner beans (Phaseolus coccineus) for 4 years now. 2yrs in Western Washington zone 8a and 2yrs in Western Illinois zone 5b. Originally I started with Ed Humes and Johnny’s Scarlet Emperor and saved seed from then on. The plant yielded heavily in Western Washington, a bit less during the freakishly hot summer of 2021 . I brought the saved seeds with me to Illinois in 2022 and they didn’t produce as heavily here. I saved the seeds and in 2023 I planted the remainder of my Washington stock along with 2022 Illinois harvest, along with Ayocote Negro and Ayocote Morado (both have scarlet flowers) from Oaxaca, Mexico. 2023 was a hot dry summer in upper 90s to low 100s. Plants flowered heavily but didn’t set seed until October and even November. Not a lot of seed but plenty for planting in 2024.
The plants that looked happiest and set the most seed in 2023 were located on the north side of a east-west solid wood fence, by the way, so their feet were in the shade. Plants that had full sun barely set any seed and looked generally unhappy although they flowered and didn’t die.
I do observe some apparent mixing of seed colors in 2023 so I’m hopeful that some crossing ocurred. For 2024 I will plant the remainder of my Illinois 2022 seed, the remainder of my 2022 Ayocote Negro seed, saved seed from 2023, and another line from Oaxaca called Ayocote Pinto which has a variety of bean colors and patterns .
It’s my understanding that Ayocote beans are grown over a very wide geographic range by indigenous peoples of Mexico (for the last several thousand years) so there may already exist varieties that can handle hot weather. Someone mentioned to me that the Mexican government has some kind of seed bank, i don’t know any details about it. For someone interested in travel, it might be productive to identify and visit certain areas in Mexico to acquire Ayocote seed.
I am also considering trying some late fall planting to overwinter seed in the ground. They might just rot, I don’t know. In 2023 I direct seeded all my plants starting in late May. I think early May might be better though.
Other thoughts: indigenous peoples of Mexico traditionally grow ayocote beans in milpas along with maize and squash in the Three Sisters way. In some areas, in swiddens (slash and burn). For those who are able to practice pyriculture, that might produce better results. I was able to do it in Western Washington but not in Illinois. My squash, corn and tomatoes sure liked burned ground too.
3 Likes
Oh I saw those Ayocote Pinto at masienda.com and was tempted to buy a bag for gowing (and cooking) but the shipping scared me off since I had just ordered some masa the day before they restocked!
Yeah, I saw the Masienda offering and yes the shipping charge is ridiculously high. Duals Natural also sells it with a lower shipping charge.
If anyone is interested in a more technical discussion of scarlet runner bean genetics, this article also shows a species range map:
Domestication Genomics of the Open-Pollinated Scarlet Runner Bean (Phaseolus coccineus L.)
1 Like
Hi Brent!
I grew up in northern IL and am now growing in southeast MN. Care to swap some runner beans? I’ve grown out ‘painted lady’ here in MN for 2 years now.
1 Like
I’m interested. How many seeds are you thinking?
I dunno, 10-15 ish? Flexible. Can discuss other mn-grown seeds you might be interested in, for a swap via mail
check your DM’s
Esther, if you get a pack of runner beans from Going To Seed, about 1/4 of the pack will have been grown in my northern MN garden…in case that’s of interest.
1 Like
Thanks Brent!
Any advice for timing and spacing if interplanting with Tithonia (for a living trellis)? 
About 3 feet is good. Sunflowers can go in between, and also make good scarlet runner bean supports. Zinnias work well in the foreground.
2 years ago at my location the runner beans had a decent pod set UNTIL summer arrived. Then they sulked and pouted until it cooled off. Once it dropped to 70s during the day they were happy and started flowering and setting beans again. During that time the runner were nonproductive my normal beans were going crazy and started to taper off as the runners picked up again. My plants even endured a few frosts and continued to pump out flowers and some pods.
Now that DH has the garden reset to his liking I am looking forward to raising my runners again.
edited to add: We don’t have hummingbirds here but my plants were loaded with beetles and some of our solitary bees. I never noticed the big bumbles on them but they were conspicuously absent that year from my area.
1 Like
ChatGPT suggested inoculating with a broad-spectrum arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) mix. This tends to improve the ability of the plant to tolerate hot, dry conditions, according to ChatGPT. I have not yet tried this, but am interested in doing the experiment.
Per Google Gemini:
“Tolerance to Heat and Dry Conditions: Specific white-flowered cultivars, such as ‘White Lady’ and ‘White Emergo’, are known to be more tolerant of dry and hot conditions than many red varieties. This resilience helps ensure a consistent, heavy crop even in challenging climates.
In essence, the white flower gene, often linked to superior self-setting characteristics and specific environmental resistances, provides genetic diversity that makes the plant population more robust and adaptable to various conditions and pressures. “
“Specific Environmental Factors
-
High Temperatures and Heat Stress: Runner bean pollen can become inviable when temperatures consistently rise above 85°F to 90°F (29°C to 32°C). White-flowered varieties are often more tolerant of these heat conditions and can better set beans, ensuring crop production when red varieties fail.
-
Drought/Dry Conditions: Cultivars with white flowers, such as ‘White Lady’ and ‘Aztec Dwarf White’, are generally known to stand up better to drought and dry weather than many red varieties. This resilience in water-stressed environments ensures more reliable yields.”
“Heat tolerance in Phaseolus coccineus is likely correlated with white flower color, rather than directly caused by the gene responsible for the pigment itself. The association is primarily due to genetic linkage or the selection history of specific cultivars.
Correlation vs. Causation
- Correlation (Strong Genetic Linkage): The genes that confer heat tolerance (e.g., genes for pollen viability, root architecture, or reduced flower abscission under stress) are physically located close to the flower color genes on the same chromosome. Because they are close, they are typically inherited together as a “package”. Breeders historically selected white-flowered varieties that happened to also carry these beneficial, linked heat-tolerance genes.”
“Yes, crossing white-flowered P. coccineus with red-flowered P. coccineus could eventually yield heat-tolerant, red-flowered offspring through a process called recombination and selective breeding.
The Breeding Process
Here is how a breeder would achieve this result:
-
Initial Cross (P Generation): A red-flowered plant (heat-sensitive) is crossed with a white-flowered plant (heat-tolerant). As mentioned previously, the F₁ generation will likely show intermediate/pink flowers, indicating the blending of traits and the presence of both genetic backgrounds in the offspring.
-
F₂ Generation and Segregation: The F₁ plants are self-pollinated or crossed with each other. In the resulting F₂ generation, the genes will assort and recombine into new combinations. This generation will produce a mix of flower colors (red, pink/salmon, and white) and a range of heat tolerance levels.
-
Selection and Testing: The breeder would then select all the plants that have red flowers. These red-flowered plants would be grown in a hot environment (either naturally hot conditions or a controlled greenhouse with heat stress).
-
Identifying Superior Individuals: The breeder would monitor which of the red-flowered plants successfully set pods and produce a high yield under heat stress conditions, identifying the specific individuals that inherited the heat tolerance genes from their white-flowered parent.
-
Stabilization: The selected, heat-tolerant, red-flowered plants are self-pollinated for several generations, with continuous selection for both traits in each generation. This process stabilizes the new variety, ensuring that the offspring reliably express both the red flowers and the heat tolerance.
Because heat tolerance is likely a complex, polygenic trait (controlled by multiple genes) that is merely linked to the white flower color gene, the crossing process breaks that linkage and allows the desirable genes to be isolated in a new, red-flowered plant. This is a common method used in plant breeding to combine desirable traits from different varieties. “
To be frank, I would appreciate it if we did not share AI-generated text here. Even if we fact-checked every single approximation of information it presents as fact. There’s already enough flagrant untruths floating around (that, mind, the AI also draws from), we should minimise the risk of adding to that and further accelerating the feedback loop of disinformation.
1 Like
In that case, you should probably stop using search engines, because they are all using AI on the back end at this point. And quite a significant proportion of published research papers are utilizing AI to summarize data and format the text.
I appreciate that AI isn’t infallible. That’s why I attributed my post to Gemini for the sake of disclosure. The old search engines, pre-AI were not infallible either.
But those old search engines don’t exist anymore. It’s definitely necessary to check sources… Gemini does include links to sources and i do look at them. And yes, sometimes they don’t align. When that occurs, i explain that to Gemini, and it tries again. This sort of back and forth conversation can actually improve the quality of the response. Overall, in my experience AI is useful in surfacing content for relatively obscure topics such as the genetics of Phaseolus coccineus. ( Also sunflowers and squash other projects I’m working on.)
That being said, i don’t think it’s existentially risky to add some white runner beans to my grex and see if they perform better in heat. If they don’t, then they will get selected out. If they do, they will likely cross with the red flowered ones and recombine traits as Gemini suggested.