Oh yes that drawing was a really schematic representation to get a clear mind on the taste selection progresses, while maintaining a huge diversity, after the first steps of “mix it all!”. I’m gonna be adding new stuff every year or so and old stuff from my fields regularly.
Like this year for example: I added new strains that were given to me as excellent and bringing some phenotypic in my Maxima and Moschata patches… Another option is to try them apart before bringing them in, after taste selection on site… As we never know if what’s best there will gonna be great here.
To get a good representation of cucurbits diversity I recommend Amy Goldman’s books which are real treasures.
Glad you watched it as it’s so inspiring!
My reply would be that my expectations are centered on storing ability, so to say create a modern landrace for march-may consumption, more largely: maintain both vigor, excellent storing ability, excellent taste.
Then I don’t know how this will turn, it’s more a sub project that is really fun as I’ve been inserting those which are 3/4 maximas in my moschata patch this year and those which are 3/4 moschata in my maxima patch. So there are 15 individual crosses of each from last year that gonna be crossed randomely with my “best of the best” of these species, as those interspecific hybrids are located in the center of my patches, i.e. surrounded by my “excellent tasting” squashes - which are also long conservation by the way!
I’ll may be looking for male fertility restauration of these (pollen flow) but I don’t want to spend hours looking for that so I think I won’t be too intentionnal in that, just enjoying the fun of those “special cucurbits” while maintaining the principle of bringing those which are dominantly of one species in the other species patch. And there should be zero to very very minimum pollen flow from these to those around so that doesn’t change a thing in my breeding framework for the later.
Happy to share seeds by the way.
Last year I’ve seen that they don’t produce many viable seeds comparatively to random maximas or moschatas, in plain words from just one (which germinated! ) to 125, but in average 20-30. Some researches have said that this phenomenon might be responsible for the crazy productivity, as the plant spends less energy turning photosynthesis in seeds, i.e. lipids and many compounds which are high energy demanding. But then to me it’s more speculation than real causal relationship. So I’ll keep it in check but won’t focus on that “few seeds” trait.
I wonder where I said that, but yes in my representation the “grex” stage is when there is a maximum diversity and so to say adaptability, so yes in the francophone PEPS group I’ve been advocating for this idea of spreading/sharing/selling breeding populations at grex’s stage (like Experimental Farm Network does, notably with Joseph work and Going to Seed with the crazy offerings there are in the US ) in order to enable the farmer or the gardener to do his on-site selection, without having to go through the process of those 1-2 first year of “mix-it-all!” (A.k.a. grex).
I know that it may not seem so but it’s such an effort to be made originally to asemble a consistent grex : not only it’s something to have fields covered in super heterogeneous and hazardous or risky material that you will have to select from, so not sell anything from it (talking from a market gardener point of view), but on top of that you’ll have to spend hours (…that frequently you don’t have available!) in autumn/winter accessing those seeds, i.e. paying or swapping seeds, spending time on it if you are reallly intentionnal in what you’re doing…
So that overwork is a HUGE limiting factor. That’s why we need shared efforts, networks, and then in those networks why not spreading seeds more and more passed that mixing process, just to save one or two years + the time spent on accessing seeds to createca consistent grex. The Gaia Foundation Seed Sovereignity Programme with @Holly_S does also something like that. I will soon be in Quebec to meet up with existing networks there and talk about individual and network strategies.
Then, from a practical standpoint, as I’m not making a living out of selling seeds, I guess that I won’t be able to do that maintenance of an unselected grex in future years, focusing more on advancing my selections towards excellence in my context.
As discussed with a friend yesterday adaptation (to a site) is not adaptability (to multiple locations), so yes I guess the more I go I will look towards local adaptation rather than to adaptability. I guess it would be the role of networks to do that but it’s a little too mind boggling to imagine multi site trials/selection to conduct things more towards adaptability… So now I stand with that really simple idea for networks of sending seeds at grexes stage, before too much selection is applied.
Also in my mind there’s too much theory implied in that, it’s more of a fragile “mind scaffolding”… What we really know and what we guess in that seems to me erratic…
Still on a theoreticall standpoint (and based on the -false? relative?- premise that genetics is everything that matters) I’ve been advocating for the idea of asembling Core Collections (those made by gene banks and which are some kind of “Noah’s Arks” for each species or subspecies) in the fields to get simply the maximum adaptability and breeding potential… But once again I guess it’s more the role of networks, conscious of their role, leverage, and getting funding for that, to implement such strategies. But in my mind that will never be overstated: the potential is huge: we would just have to access those and start some of the best grexes ever seen, with (still theoretically) the best craziest adaptability potential , so to say greatest local adaptationS.
So no I won’t be keeping foundational populational (i.e. unselected grexes) on my own.
Regarding the interspecific hybrids :
I’ll add up that there is very significant early growth differences from one of last year cross (i.e. fruit) to another: see there with the 2024 3/4 moschatas Tetsukabutos.
The 2 first were relatively big squashes with 25 seeds each, the 2 later smaller with 7 seeds for the 3rd and 33 for the 4th, i.e. the smaller squash. All kept perfectly until they were opened in mid April. And were delicious!
Here they are now, with my thumb marking their rank, each one is 2 meters / 7 feet apart from the next in a rather homogeneous soil :
) to 125, but in average 20-30. Some researches have said that this phenomenon might be responsible for the crazy productivity, as the plant spends less energy turning photosynthesis in seeds, i.e. lipids and many compounds which are high energy demanding. But then to me it’s more speculation than real causal relationship. So I’ll keep it in check but won’t focus on that “few seeds” trait.
) in order to enable the farmer or the gardener to do his on-site selection, without having to go through the process of those 1-2 first year of “mix-it-all!” (A.k.a. grex).
