Shortest Season Tomatoes and a Solanum pimpinillifolium connection

I want that for Maximas. Plus photos! We should get what we want!! My poor husband. So do you want a soil test associated with it (that would be super fantastic for this data nerd except I don’t see that happening with landrace gardeners), or how does one test for OM without a soil test?

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Shoot, you’re right. How about a Munsell colour chart, a structure description, and a float test? Together those should approximate the OM somewhat, or at least give us a sense. Maybe with a list of the last ten years of inputs in tons per acre?

That’s interesting, I can see cooler temperatures making it taste bad, or perhaps less water. Likely just needs to be adapted to your local conditions.

Can I have 10 tomatoes for earliest, 10 for flavor, 10 for fanciness, 10 for most interesting weird wild genes, and 10 for exserted stigmas? I just want to make lists of plants all day. Oh wait… I might do that for a living.


I could see how Coyote could produce spitters. It has a little bit of a strange element to the flavor that if brought out by your climate could be ick. It is in one of the videos.

Yes please! All those lists!

I’m going to go inventory my tomatoes before I propose sending out surveys to the folks who take our seeds and derail this thread even more.


2017 from Transplant:
Earl’s Jagodka
Sweet Cherriette
Tumbler F1
Sungold F2

2017 Direct Seeded:
Sweet Cherriette
Sungold F2
Krainiy Sever
42 days
anmore dewdrop
A Joseph Lofthouse landrace potato leaf

Brad x
Blue Ambrosia
Earl’s Jagodka
Anmore Dewdrop

MMS Project F2 early saved 41 seeds
Terrior Cheesemanii
Earliest Red Direct Seeded F2

Wild Child was an important additional early

Krainiy Sever
Earl’s Jagodka
Exserted Tiger
Promiscuous project
Sweet Cherriette
Mission Mountain Sunrise
Big Hill

Mission Mountain Sunrise
Sweet Cherriette
Lizzano F1
Solanum pimpinellifolium (3 accessions)

MMM x Sweet Cherriette F2


Less water often concentrates sugar and flavor. Can be better! Could also be worse!

Did your Sungold F2 seem uniform? Er, uniform enough that more than one of the batch was early? To get back on subject, do I remember it was supposed to have an interesting ancestor in there?

Sungold definitely segregates and it might cross a little easily as it is sometimes exserted. It is early as an F1 and some of the segregates might be even earlier. There has been some speculation that it has recent habrochaites ancestry based on its odd foliage scent. When Lee Goodwin dehybridized it for his Ambrosia line he followed the spicy foliage scent down through the generations of segregants retaining those that had it. He than outcrossed that to a blue strain from the OSU breeding program to get Blue Ambrosia which was my best exserted tomato in 2017 and the mother of Exserted Tiger- though I didn’t know about the foliage scent so haven’t selected for it. When I got Blue Ambrosia it was fairly obvious it was still segregating or crossing sneakily even from the first five plants I grew. Most of the Sungold still segregating plants I have grown have still been orange with some variation. I did finally find a red one though in 2021 I think. Sungold F1 is actually quite excellent breeding material. Though I think it would be more fun to make a cross with it then just let it segregate because the latter has been done over and over again.

That is super interesting. I’m putting blue ambrosia on the list and… as I was out doing chores tonight I was wrestling with myself about being the three billionth person to play with unsuccessfully dehybridizing sungold, crossing it seems like a much better idea. It’s certainly tasty, in its own way. I remember throwing out tomato sauce I made with it, because it was too sweet.

I guess the (pedantic) question I was asking about the F2 was, how did the F2 break down for earliness?

Have you tried tossing in Adaptive Seeds’ ‘Santiam Sunrise’ as a playful partner in your Sungold playground? I grew them the past two years and there is ‘some’ fun to be had. That (I believe, someone can correct me if I’m wrong) is their offering to the ongoing de-hybridizing Sungold pantheon.

Every year I encounter the same question: Can I get Sungold flavor into a worthy Paste tomato ?

I’m holding this thread responsible for a tomato seed order including apparently a copper currant tomato and blue ambrosia put in at 1am.

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I have not managed to buy everything I want from Lee Goodwin he has so many cool varieties.

I don’t have Santiam Sunrise.

Tomato, Santiam Sunrise (Organic) - Adaptive Seeds

Though looking at its story it is bred from crosses with Russian cherry tomatoes. Crosses with Sungold? Hard to know but they sure compare it to Sungold a lot.

Oh, so Craig LeHoullier compared Dwarf Eagle Smiley to Sungold. It was good but not the same. However, no relation.

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I’ve been holding that since Exserted Tiger has recent Sungold ancestry I don’t need to make another cross with Sungold but I do need to cross Exserted Tiger with the Mission Mountain Series and get some stripes back in the game. Though yes I got stripes back in the game from Brad’s Atomic Grape and Purple Zebra F1 last year.

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You also need to do another seed grow out for exserted tiger; it sold out before I could get at it.

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Not going to grow it out alone, I think Snake River is or was going to grow it out. I’m going to cross it into the Mission Mountain Series.


Hear ye’, Hear ye’! I concur @WilliamGrowsTomatoes . Please grow out more seeds…pwetty pwease :heart_eyes:

This sounds awesome. I can’t wait to hear about the grow.