I read that book too, and I jave some friends that have had great success with improving their kids autism spectrum disorder by following her medical/nutritional advice.
From my research and reading over the years, I strongly believe that she would not have seen the same for vegans. If you read some of Dr. Weston A. Price’s work you will find that all cultures ate at least some animal products, be that eggs, or organ meats or fish depending on where they lived, they often went to great efforts to obtain these foods ( within a generation or two there were repercussions in their offspring if not)
If you’re not familiar with Dr. Price, he was a dentist who lost his son to an abscessed tooth (how horrible) and subsequently researched why some (moslty untouched by modern civilization) cultures were healthier than others, they also had no tooth decay unless they changed from their ancestral diet.
I am gonna try and write some more about this, but my 3 year old isn’t in the mood to let me type
If I’m remembering right, The China Study found the opposite to be true with small populations in isolated valleys who were essentially vegan, being the most healthy and longest lived of the groups. (It’s been like 20 years since I read it so I could have details wrong, but I think that was the gist.)
Again, based on the areas listed many of your ancestors ate a lot of fermented foods.
I think to some extent landrace principles can be applied to people and other animals. We all adapt, over generations, to the food that is available. When that food is no longer available, or when we change our diets significantly, problems occur.
The quality of the food going into the animal makes a big difference too. A deer is free to eat the choicest foods in the forest. When I eat the deer, I get to benefit from all diversity.
A chicken being fed gmo garbage laced with herbicide gives me less health benefit.
Totally! Same with cows in CAFO feedlot operations. Also I am pretty sure our ancestors would have eaten more than just the muscle meat we like to consume these days.
A hate to bring up a movie scene, but this just popped into my head, remember in ‘The Revenant’ how the main character played by DiCaprio eats the buffalo liver? (Or is it the heart? No the heart was in Dances with Wolves )( No, i don’t believe everything I see on TV does this put the credibility of my whole post in a rather unfavorable light, haha?)
Also I read that cows can somehow ‘sense’ the nutrient density in the grass and herbs in their diet when left to forage, and will pick and selectively graze. (In Switzerland where I am from there is cheese that is just made from the milk after the cows go back up on the alp for the new growth of spring herbs)
And deer apparently have a similar ‘sense’: they found that deer will go out of their way to eat leaves of the same species of tree/plant that grows all round them, to go graze on one that has been fertilized (optimal nutrition forbthe plant?), planted by a nursery next to the highway, etc.
Wouldn’t it be logical to assume that most animals have or at least used yo have this sense? I often think humans do, and perhaps that’s why people overeat, trying to get the nutrient density their animal brain expects from the sadly empty calorie food most people consume.
I might not remember right either but I have this nagging feeling I read about the China study and about how some of it was shown in a somewhat biased way to make the authors’ point? Have nothing to back this up, no bibliography or citation/ quotes though
If you follow the Price Foundation, it’s very likely that you did see stuff like that. Sally Fallon engaged in a media war against it using all kind of lies and nefarious tactics. (Probably well outside the scope of this discussion, but even being very friendly to their overall messages – pro raw and fermented foods, I take everything they write with a dumptruck of salt.)
With any large study requires large money. Large money usually can be traced to agenda. I have reached an understanding, specially over the last few years, that science is bought. Does anyone remember what organization made the claim that they “own the science”?
Common sense is paramount for resilience moving forward in modern times.
If you read some of Dr. Weston A. Price’s work you will find that all cultures ate at least some animal products, be that eggs, or organ meats or fish depending on where they lived, they often went to great efforts to obtain these foods ( within a generation or two there were repercussions in their offspring if not)
If you’re not familiar with Dr. Price, he was a dentist who lost his son to an abscessed tooth (how horrible) and subsequently researched why some (moslty untouched by modern civilization) cultures were healthier than others, they also had no tooth decay unless they changed from their ancestral diet.
I’m not familiar with him, but it sounds like reading some of his work would be worthwhile. Is there anything in particular you recommend?
I can easily believe most humans regularly ate some meat or animal products, even if they mostly ate plants. I was surprised recently to learn that most “herbivores” are actually omnivores who opportunistically eat meat whenever they find it. Deer love eating birds, for example. In fact, research suggests they may even need to eat bones in order to get the calcium they require for their antlers.
Ahh, that might have been where i saw it. And as I knew nothing about that particular topic but had gotten to that foundation through reading some of WAPrice’s actual research, I was willing to just accept and believe what they said. Thanks for putting it all in perspective!
I didn’t know about the deer, how fascinating! I had read about seed eating birds (that’s why they like suet)
And yes, let me go dig in my books to get you the title of what i have.
PS: please remind me if i forget!
I assume it’s accurate because Sci Show tends to do its research, but it is a YouTube channel rather than a scientific paper, so please feel free to check for better sources if you want to.
I was very surprised when I watched that video, and then in retrospect, not surprised anymore at all. I had previously wondered, “What do cows do if they accidentally swallow a rodent with a mouthful of grass? Would it hurt them?” The answer is no, and they’d probably consider it a bonus.
Huh! I just rewatched it so I could check and see if I remembered it correctly.
He mentioned vitamin B12, which is tough to get from non-meat sources, especially for humans (we don’t have the gut bacteria necessary to get it from plants).
Human gut bacteria are symbiotes that are generally passed from mother to child. I wouldn’t be surprised if we humans have a genetic predisposition to form better symbiotic relationships with certain species of gut bacteria than others, just like plants with endophytes. And on top of that, the actual colonization of an infant’s gut by their mother’s gut bacteria at the time of birth would ensure passing on not only a predisposition to do well with those bacteria, but the actual bacteria themselves.
Perhaps there are some species of gut bacteria that can symbiotize well with a human gut and provide sufficient vitamin B12 from plants? And only some humans are genetically predisposed to form a strong relationship with those species?
Perhaps that may be a common mechanism for why some human populations can do well without meat, and other human populations need it?
Huhhhh. And on the subject of obligate carnivory, and “herbivores” who often eat meat:
Did you know that pandas have the digestive system of a carnivore, and in the wild, they selectively eat only the most high-protein, lowest-in-fiber parts of bamboo, so their 99% bamboo diet is actually nutritionally much more similar to meat than plants?
Did you know they eat meat whenever they can scavenge it?
Did you know that pandas in the wild can breed just fine, and pandas in captivity are well known for being incredibly difficult to convince to breed?
Did you know lack of desire to reproduce is a common symptom of long-term nutritional deficiency?
I, uh, think we may be missing something obvious here.
Now, obviously panda zookeepers are smart and have thought of this. The biggest barrier to feeding pandas meat seems to be that they don’t find meat tasty and don’t want to eat it. This is highly puzzling, given that they digest it so much better than bamboo and get so many more nutrients from it. It’s also puzzling because they eat meat in the wild.
I’ve often thought it looks like pandas just plain don’t like being in captivity, and don’t want to live in zoos, so they are passive-aggressively resisting.
Of course, then there’s also Joe Scott’s very humorous theory:
Oh, blast. I’m really, really upset about some advice I just read online, mainly because I suspect it’s right.
Apparently dairy and eggs both contain a lot of calcium. Calcium inhibits iron absorption. If you are prone to anemia, you should wait two hours after eating iron-rich foods before consuming dairy or eggs.
(Heavy sigh.)
But I REALLY LIKE eating meat and cheese together!
I’ve investigated both vitamin B12 and iron as possible reasons I seem to be an obligate carnivore, and the evidence seems very strong for iron and fairly weak for vitamin B12. So I think “being prone to get anemia easily” is the most likely reason I’m an obligate carnivore.
You know what I’ve never tried cutting out of my diet? Cheese.
You know what I love eating lots of every day? Cheese.
(Heavy sigh.)
I think I should try eating a whole lot less cheese, and eating it in separate meals from beef. I should try cutting back on my beef intake gradually, and see if I can be healthy on less than a pound (which has been the baseline for how much I’ve needed per day in order to be healthy for decades).
I’m probably still an obligate carnivore, but I may be a much less extreme one if I’m not eating dairy.
I don’t like this idea at all.
But I need the truth, and if I want to be able to grow more of my own food, I really need to be less dependent on huge quantities of meat.
Guess it’s time to set aside a full month to test how my body reacts if I change my diet this way.
Try it, but keep a food journal/mood journal. When I tried to cut out cheese I was having really odd, disturbing and vivid dreams, broken sleep, and general weakness. Remember that cheese is providing protein and fat as well as other nutrients, so those deficits need to be made up somehow. You may actually find yourself eating more meat, rather than less.
Do you live close to any large town/city? I don’t. If my water source came from a big town, I would prioritize special, extra special water filtration. I am beginning to become aware of pharmaceuticals and endocrine disrupters being recycled back into the drinking water and not being properly filtered.
We got a notice from our water company that our water failed one of the quality tests and was not properly reported. I’ve tested my water before for chloramine. It turns out they do not use chloramine here which is good.
So for me, my resiliency plan includes knowing what’s coming down the pipe and learning how to filter it. Additionally, water that has no minerals such as distilled water supposedly is magnetic to minerals. So it wants to absorb minerals from where it passes. So the answer it seems is filtering the bad out while keeping in the good. Or if that’s not practical, distilling water then adding back the good.
does this put the credibility of my whole post in a rather unfavorable light, haha?)
