I ate a few nightshade berries all summer long. They tasted sweet and nice, and didn’t give me stress. Then, during fall frost-emergency harvest, I harvested the entire patch, and like I tend to do, I tasted berries from every plant during harvest. I estimate my dose at maybe 4 ounces.
Six hours later, about 2 AM, I awoke with the worst stomach ache of my life. Figured that I aught to figure out what species I actually ate… Solanum nigrum. Prognosis mentioned that symptoms start 6 hours after ingestion, that no treatment exists, and that I would either live or die. So I took a marker, and wrote on my chest, “solanum nigrum oops”. Then I went back to bed, and awoke in the morning, apparently none the worse for wear.
The one potato berry I ate tasted very sweet, but immediately made me nauseous.
I selected my tomatillos to ripen to sweet yellow fruits. I cull the green types.
Hmm… What about the Wild American Types growing on the east coast?
Wait why both? aren’t Bridge Species enough? Or Combing Bridge Species with Mentor Pollination?
It just seems like Embryo rescue might not be feasible without a lab.
Or just hybrid swarm it until you get something cool am I right? Maybe then you will unintentionally breed/Cross the Bridge Species needed?
Last year I’ve only had 1 Phyaslis spp. (Forgot if it was Grocery Store Goldenberry or Tomatillo) Grow and it Flowered but not fruit formed. I tried to make it self pollinate but still no fruit and then it died because of winter. This year I didn’t bother because I wanted bulk up on Phyaslis seeds.
Damn that’s pretty dark. Despite it, you didn’t let it ruin your vibe. You are silly writing “oops”
But did you wait for the unripe green berries to actually fully ripen off the plant? To the Point there is no green, Fully deep Black?
Cybele Blanche Derby made an Epic Foraging Video on Black Nightshade. SO MUCH VALUABLE INFO! I trust what she says, same with Samuel Thayer, both Foraging pros!
At 6:33, She said Berries can survive several frosts, so maybe you should’ve just waited? Also she uprooted the plant because frost was coming, she found out that some of the unripe green berries had ripened after a few days of hard frosts. This got me thinking, I think fully green berries won’t ripen but partially unripe berries with a little black can off the vine, similar to how can Tomatoes ripen off the vine. But do you also need HArd frost to ripen them safely if harvesting prematurely?
Kind of makes landracing Potato berries for edibility not worth the effort. I’m also surprised it tasted very sweet, It’s scary getting tricked like that. Poison hemlock I’ve heard also tasted sweet but can & Probably will kill you.
Interesting, so Green types are actually ripe then? Just like Truly Ripe Green Tomatoes? Or do they just fail ripening properly hence why you culled them?
I’ve tried eating Pale Yellow Tomatillo fruits from grocery store, they tasted like cheese to me. I’m surprised you somehow got Sweet as a flavor in there.
Also I’m starting to suspect you have a Sweet Tooth just like me, is everything you Landrace Sweet AF? Or is your focus just tasting good?
Should give distinction to tomatillos and ground cherries. Tomatillos generally need more than one plant. They might selfpollinate, but changes aren’t that great. Ground cherrias as far as I know selfpollinate.
The gap between tomatillos and ground cheries might just be so far and without proper tools it seems like quite a lot of effort. I did try to find information about it earlier, but there doesn’t seem to be many studies which would suggest that it might not be worth to effort. Even if you can do embrio rescue doesn’t mean you can get any further with your crosses. Many cross species crosses tend to be sterile and if they don’t happen naturally I would think even more so. If there was something to be done, scientists would be working on it.
The tools and equipment to do embryo rescue are readily available, and easy to implement. Sterile technique is commonly taught and practiced in settings like medicine, mushroom cultivation, etc. Basic setup would include a pressure canner, and a still air glove box.
Alan Kapular talks about “Tomatoes that occasionally cross”. He referred to interspecies hybrids with Solanum peruvianum. The cross hardly ever works, but once in a while, nature figures it out, and a highly unlikely cross occurs. If we grow kinship gardens, of closely and distantly related species, eventually, some interesting new things show up.
Glycoalkaloids. Apparently there is one in tomatoes “tomatine” that is in all green parts. Hopefully that gives you a direction to do more research whoever is interested.
That explains the Cultivated type being named Garden Huckleberry.
Hmm, would it be Improper to suggest they might be different subgenus within Physalis? Like how physalis alkekengi is? Maybe that’s the bridge we need.
Or is Physalis more similar to how Gardeners often encourage planting 1 of each type of Squash (Cucurbita pepo, Cucubita maxima , Cucurbita moshchata, etc) next to each other since they won’t cross on their with out our help.
I wish I could find a Phylogenic tree to explain the Physalis genus cuz it’s one HUGE GENUS with lots of species (Usually when that happens, the genus forms lots of sub-genera, like with solanum)
Well that’s good to know! Do you know of any step by step tutorials I could follow? Or maybe you can make one yourself?
Just looked him and Damn he is BASED AF (Well Rooted in what he does/Has a Backbone)
Saw this video, Thank you for introducing me to him! (Now I’m gonna go down the Rabbit hole)
Hmm… If we just Nudge/Help Nature out, we can speed run this process. Hybrid Swarms here we come!
Thank you for Pointing it out, That’s what I’ve always assumed. So if we just eat Tomatoes with no green parts Boom, we are safe right? (Would that make Tomatoe Flower Petals edible tho? They Yellow Color I Highly doubt it tho).
Also does this applies to almost all Solanums? Because People do eat Black Nightshade Leaves and eat Gogi Berry Leaves, somehow? (I’m Still overly Cautious about it tho)
I would say that nature isn’t always so straight forward and you can’t organize as much as people would like to. Maybe tomatillos get moved to their own someday, but I don’t think it matters either way. Many genus have species that will cross and wont cross with each other. Squash do cross many ways (not quite certain which compinations work/dont work) without help from people, although it might not be common enough for people to isolate them. They don’t cross with the other cucurbits on the other hand, even with help. Sometimes barriers are just too great for it to make sense to try. Nature might find a way eventually, but it has a lot bigger garden and eons to work with.
Solanum americanum has edible berries, Solanum nigrum berries are toxic. Americanum berries are shiny black when ripe; nigrum berries are dull black. I would always recommend starting slow with an unfamiliar berry even if it’s not toxic. Some people are allergic to tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant. I wouldn’t recommend Solanum americanum to those folks.
I’ve been wondering if Solanum americanum might cross with tomatoes since both are in the same genus.
Uh…Solanum Nigrum is garden candy. I eat it all the time. The trick is to eat only fully ripe berries.
I just found Solanum Americanum in my yard. I have Nigrum planted in my garden. Otherwise known as Schwarzenberen, along with a lot of other names. Closely related to Wonderberry, Solanum Berbanki. It is believed that nigrum was brought here by european settlers. Take that as you will, it was considered a prime edible for many years.
Be careful of anything with white, yellow, red or purple berries, and just like always, proceed cautiously with unknowns.
Wait what? Solanum nigrum fully ripe berries aren’t toxic. Forager samuel thayer even eats the greens of Black Nightshades after they have been cooked & picked before plants flower (I’m still iffy about the greens (Especially when Gogi berry greens are more easily edible) but fully ripe berries I’m confident are easily edible! I forage for them all the time!).
Nah, not possible (For the most part). Solanum has multiple Subgenera & multiple Sections that don’t cross with each other. Tomatoes belong to Lycopersicum section therefore don’t cross with Solanum nigrum Section. They are almost certainly graft compatible tho like how Potatoes & Tomatoes are. With Solanum nigrum complex, there are TOOOO many Species that constantly hybridizes so it’s very difficult to seperate species, therefore, for simplicity sake I consider them all Black Nightshade (Or Simply Varieties of the Solanum nigrum complex) & Don’t bother Separating the SUPER closely related species. I know they are all cross-able & that all Fully Ripe Black Nightshade Berries (Solanum section solanum) are edible (Even the Albino White Solanum villosum is edible, some even consider it another variant of Solanum nigrum).
Just to be clear, DON’T CONFUSE with Deadly Nightshade (Atropa belladonna). DON’T fuck around with that one, it’s Deadly TOXIC. (Sorry for the foul language, but the point must be emphasized!) Don’t worry, Atropa belladonna is not cross-able with Solanum nigrum.
Oh I’m super curious, how does it taste? I’ve only eaten wild black nightshade berries, the ones I tried were sweet like a berry with a hint of Tomato.
Eventually I was hoping to breed Black Nightshade berries as Big a Beefsteak Tomatoes!
Hard to describe. The closest I come is a sweetish tomato, but that’s not precisely it. It doesn’t taste anything like what you would expect a berry to taste. It has a flavor all its own.
Very Interesting, acquired taste? Have you tried wild black nightshade berries? Does it taste similar to them (It should right)? The ones I tried taste like a Tomato with an artificial grape flavor berry flavor. They were sweet but not crazy sweet. I Enjoyed them! Below is what they looked like, Did yours have green seed gels inside? Mine were & about pea sized.
Oh, ok. I was going off what i have read, and admittedly there is a lot of conflicting information out there. My main point should have been that i can affirm from personal experience that Solanum americanum is edible and tasty. And that i have never experienced ill effects from eating it, and that therefore i treat it like i treat volunteer tomatoes, as a welcome surprise in my garden.
Interesting, nigrum probably had more selection breeding.
Do you think we can increase the size of Black Nightshade? Maybe it can become Cherry Tomato Size instead of currant tomato size? I wonder if you cross multiple diverse species that a Chromosome Multiplication event can happen & increase the size similar to how it happen to the domesticated BIG Strawberry?
Oh yes, Forager Samuel Thayer in his book talks about the conflicting info! To summarize, most problems arose from Confusing Deadly Nightshade (Atropa belladonna) With The Perfectly edible Black Nightshade (Solanum nigrum Complex). and some may have eaten unripe green berries, there’s no concern with fully ripe Black berries (or White in Solanum villosum).
Now that’s the attitude we Need! I hope you can Breed better Black Nightshade too! It’s a crop I’m fascinated in. Oh btw After Frost, do you clear out the Black Nightshade plants? According to Forager Blanche Cybele Derby on Youtube, berries can survive several frosts, which gives some berries enough time to ripen fully despite frosts. I’ve also seen these ripen the same way Slightly unripe Green Tomatoes do, I harvested some green berries & placed them next to ripe Black Nightshade berries. They Ripened fully after a few weeks and were perfectly edible just like ripened off the vine green tomatoes.
Here’s her video on Black Nightshade, I’ve learned a lot.
Maybe, I wonder if I can Mentor Graft Tomatoes with Black Nightshade? Should be graft compatible, perhaps horizontal gene flow may cause something interesting to happen.
This should be easier, especially since black nightshade berries are frost tolerant. How many wild species are needed to get nigrum to naturalize?
