Re: the black nightshade complex, apparently it’s edible, but belladonna which is poisonous has occasionally been mistaken for black nightshade. Apparently this history of mistaken poisonings gave rise to the prevalent but false belief that black nightshades are deadly poisonous. I know from personal experience that ripe Solanum americanum berries are good to eat. I grow those in my garden.
Possibly none. A few of the berries fell at my last house and the next year it was everywhere. I hope for the same thing here.
Belladonna has an entirely different leaf pattern and growth habit, has purple flowers, and anybody eating something wild that they can’t fully identify is a Darwin Award contestant anyway.
I can see it with little kids, they’ll taste anything.
2 Likes
That seems to be the strategy for black nightshades, drop fruits so they rot & seeds inside germinate. Have you ever noticed seeds germinating inside black nightshade fruits like how some tomatoes do?
Thankfully the two are that different if you pay attention.
Absolutely that’s the concern.
No, but I haven’t looked. From what I’ve seen the tomatoes that do this are generally commercial varieties that have been cold stored (accidentally simulating winter).
1 Like
WHOA! That starts to explain & theorize a lot! This is probably how the species survives winter & shows up in our gardens as volunteers. But Tomatoes don’t need winter to stimulate growth but it helps? Or is it because the fruit protects the seeds inside like a proper seed container? I know it works like this for Squash.
I have lots of speculation. What stimulates growth in a tomato is the ideal conditions which cause the protective anti-sprout gel coating to deteriorate. That means warm temperatures, plenty of water, and enough soil microbes to destroy the gel.
However, commercial varieties seem to have little of that gel. I know I have deliberately selected for those that sprout quickly, which means little or no growth inhibiting gel.
My guess is that many of the commercial tomatoes have been inadvertently selected for the same thing. Commercial growers need seeds that will sprout fast and predictably in a basically sterile growth medium. They won’t germinate in cold storage because they aren’t programmed to do that, but once out of cold storage without that gel coating the seeds germinate immediately.
The seeds don’t need the cold to germinate, but they won’t germinate in the cold.
Or I could also just use my mouth & tounge 
. No seriously, I literally saved all my tomato seeds this way.
Very interesting, so the gel is a trait that can be selected for? Super useful! From all the grocery store tomatoes, the gel really ranged. Sometimes, it was super tiny/barely there, other times is was bigger. I guess just depends altho I’ve never grown Heirloom/Landrace or Wild type of tomatoes to actually taste test them & see, so my grocery store experience probably limited.
Smart! I wonder if Kiwano (Cucumis metuliferus) & some Melons (Cucumis melo) with seed gels function the same way? Wish I could to test this out but animals ate all my plants to even test the theory 
The issue is that we are told to get the gel off for storage, so likely anything stored won’t keep in cold soils or wait the proper time to germinate. I’ll need to store some of my seeds this year without cleaning them to test this. Or maybe just plant them in the fall…
I bet this the reason why most people don’t save seeds. It overcomplicates the basic rule to saving seeds “Don’t trow seeds away” 
. But in all seriousness, I’ve got excellent germination from grocery store tomatoes without fermenting.
All I do is (As specifc as I can be)
- Bite Tomato
- Suck out the juicy & seeds (With their seed gels)
- With mouth & tongue, slowly dissolve & separate the gel.
- Move seeds to the tip of my tongue, so I can grab them with my finger
- Spit out seeds onto a plastic table or plastic tray (NOT PAPER, unless you wanna waste HOURS cleaning it off)
- Not required but Rub off the remaining seed gel on the table itself or with your hands (This might not even be necessary either (Seems like once gel is punctured, it drys up & becomes irrelevant).
- Once seeds are fully dry (They dry Fast! like 2-3 days in my room, (1 week guarantees no moisture left))
- put in a plastic bag, lable & done! TaDa.
If you just want to save tomato seeds from a few fruits & Don’t need to save like 10,000s seeds, This is a excellent method. Over 5 years, I saved over 2000 Tomato seeds at least. I think fermenting is useful when you need to process TONS (Like 100+ fruits) of tomatoes for seed.
So much can is learned by testing! Go for it, I’m curious to see how it turns out too.
It makes sense from the perspective of the plant, for tomato seeds to have the gel coating that inhibits germination. Often it will be the case that when seeds drop it’s not an ideal time for the seed to germinate. Often that time comes much later.
As an example in another species, the sunflower Helianthus annuus, I have observed in my garden that certain cultivars drop their seeds and the seeds germinate as soon as it rains. Where I live in zone 6a that’s a death sentence for the seedlings because frost will arrive before they can flower and set seed. However, my wild population of sunflowers produce seed that requires cold dormancy before it can germinate. Those don’t sprout until the following spring when frosts have passed.
Back to tomatoes, I reliably get volunteer plants from fruit that dropped in the previous year. I’m assuming that the gel coating is what carries the seeds through the winter. I think there are distinct advantages to overwintering seeds in the soil. The seeds will germinate early when the soil is moist, then their roots will follow the water as the water table drops. Contrast this to starting tomatoes in containers then planting them out when the water table has already dropped. Now you need to water them a lot in order to get them established. That’s really a waste of water.
I’m unsure if container-started tomato plants can ever get their roots to go as deep as soil-germinated plants. If the soil is dry I doubt that the roots will reach into that dry soil even if moisture is present at a deeper level. They will probably stay near the surface where the supplemental water is being applied.
2 Likes
Very interesting, that’s why plants adapted a dormancy period. I wonder if the seeds buried under deep soil do the same thing without even having a dormancy? Like if Squash seeds were buried deep during fall under leaves & are lifted by the time spring arrives?
If we do a Woodchip or Leaf mulch system, how do we reliably overwinter tomato seeds in the soil seedbank? Just uncover the leaves to expose the soil when soil temps are warm enough or just get lucky and have all the leaves compost before spring arrives? I think it’s an genius way!
Plus imagine what kinds of other wild edibles can be uncovered in the soil seed bank! You might even discover a new species.
This is EPIC! I also noticed some Muskmelons (Cucumis melo) have seeds gels around them much like tomatoes. Can the same thing work with volunteer muskmelons? Also does the seed gel actually help the seeds protect against frost?
I found frozen Naranjillo Fruits at the grocery store & I was debating with myself weather if I should get them or not. Do you think I can get them to germinate? Or do frozen Tomato fruits always contain unviable tomato seeds? I mean Narijillo & Tomato are both Solanum species.
I have not experienced muskmelon volunteering, but that’s because i haven’t been growing it. I have experienced squash volunteering from fruit left to rot and overwinter in the field. I have seen this several times. The progeny appeared to be normal squash. Therefore i believe that squash would be a good candidate for mass sowing in fall and overwintering in the ground.