Which seed do you pre-soak?

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Which seed do you pre-soak?

Common seed to pre-soak are legumes like beans and peas. In general, most seeds seem to respond well to pre-soaking, but larger seeds often seem the most practical to do it with. I’ve heard people who pre-soak corn and squash too and I’m trying that out this year as I direct seed them.

What other seeds do you pre-soak and what do you think about when you do?

How long do you pre-soak them?

I have considered pre-soaking some seed like corn and squash and then letting them almost germinate in a soil mixture - perhaps just until the radicle comes out - and then seeding them. I’m curious whether that would allow me to sow much earlier than usual.

Do any of you soak seed that go into a sowing machine? I’m curious to try this and wonder how this will work.

Personally, I’m aware that pre-soaking seed, I will also select for seed that prefer that treatment. Hence, I prioritize doing it with seed that are relatively easy to soak before seeding (typically large seed) or seed that I am just creating a grex from (so I cuddle and nurse them for the first two generations - afterwards, I might not pre-soak them when I have enough genetic diversity and enough seed).

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I grow plants from seedlings in majority of cases. I pre-soak almost all seeds that are warm-season, so tomatoes, tomatillos, peppers, chilies, aubergines, corn, all cucurbits and legumes.

To standarize, I pre-soak all equally - 30-40 minutes give or take.
Benefits - better and faster germination, and this is important to me, to shorten the time from start to the size suitable to go outdoors.

After pre-soaking, I usually drain water and leave wet seeds in the same container, covered. I put them in the warmest location in the house. Usually, on a second day first seed germinate. Then each seed that shows sign of germination is being planted in the tray with potting mix.

I discard all seeds that did not germinated in 7 days. This way I select for fast germination under my conditions.

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Okra is the only thing I presoak. It gets an overnight bath before being planted by hand in rainy weather. I have the qualitative impression that doing so improves the germination rate.

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I don’t see anything wrong with it and maybe even some good reasons for it, but I don’t presoak any seeds.

I learned to grow a garden from people born in a generation between 1886 and 1920, and that fed families through two world wars and the great depression. They didn’t do it, so I didn’t learn it. I still do a lot of stuff pretty much like they did. No grow lights, no starter mix, no cell packs, no soil thermometers, no germ tests.

That sounds like an example of a good reason to do it, but I still won’t :grin: .

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Well, both those people had and you have enormous amount of land, compared to my container patio garden and a dozen of raised beds, one square meter each :slight_smile:
You guys can afford failed germinations, since you sow plenty (compared to me).
My garden is tiny, but prodictivity per area is huge. It requires different approach, since circumstances are entirely different.
If I had a bigger acreage, I could afford not to do many things, I would just sow the seeds into the ground and wait for the outcome :slight_smile:

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At the moment none regularly besides sweet potatoes, but even those I’ll forego once I have enough seeds to play with. I do not know how much it helps, but I rather save that time by sowing way too much and thus select for those that do better without over long time. I use germination boxes sometimes for seeds that I haven’t got much of or that can be more finicky, but have no plan to use them in the long term. I would say good watering at the time of sowing will do the trick. It’s also more flexible if I have the seeds dry because it often happens that I don’t know which I have time to sow. Previously I have had problems when my plans didn’t go to plan and corn or squash had germinated with long roots.

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This is one of the primary restraining forces for me too. The plants I direct seed I grow at a location I only come once a week so I really have to get seeds in the ground if I commit by pre-soaking.

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I usually don’t presoak any seeds.
This year I try with 2 different sweet corns (one F1 from the industry and a population of mine):

  • group not presoaked
  • group soaked in water 15hours
  • group soaked in the juice of the Amazonian landrace I had sown 20 days before, 15 hours

All sown the same day.

Behind that the idea is to look for cues of transfer of microbiology, outlined by James White as one of the potential ways of transfer without crossing - the other being the cocultivation in the same spot of the target plant with the source plant with a rich microbiome.
So the results could be seen in next generation, even if yes : cues of “something happening” could appear in first year.
There are a couple flaws in that experiment that I won’t detail there. Anyway, on that experiment using presoaking as a means to an end we shall see…

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I soak my squashs seeds during one mid day, i passt them at sand paper and i put them in a hermetic box with transparent cover.
Its very efficient on old and seeds of interspecifics cross.

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I don’t pre soak anything. I’d like to point out that rapid germination is only desirable under ideal conditions. Seeds often have some kind of dormancy mechanism built in, that protects the seed from germinating too easily. Cold-dormancy is one kind, but another kind has to do with being wet for a certain amount of time. This would imply that the ground has plenty of deep moisture in it, enough to form roots that can follow moisture down as the ground dries and water table drops.

Seeds that germinate rapidly from a small amount of rain might yield seedlings that struggle to survive as the ground rapidly dries afterward.

It is better to make do with natural precipitation, rather than irrigating, unless there truly is no natural precipitation to work with as in certain coastal plains of South America or in the Nile delta. Irrigation causes a lot of environmental problems, long term. Soil salinity, watershed disruption, climate change. There are many areas worldwide that have been abandoned due to the long term effects of irrigation.

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Interesting… so not like multiple days of pre-soak?

Yo! That is genius! Do the pre-selecting before planting saves a whole growing season worth of seed. However I do wonder about the downsides this might select for, for wild seeds the whole idea is not every seed germinates so that it doesn’t get triggered by false positives (because wild seeds need to be selective about when to germinate for the optimal window of opportunity).

Fantastic approach/solution! I have a few old seeds, giving them the pre-soak treatment is a great way to not only test if seeds still germinate well but actually grow them. I also feel this is smart for seeds you have a very limited quantity of, say like 1-3 seeds.

I also noticed generally older seeds take a longer time to soak & thus I suspect this is also why they take a longer time to germinate.

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There is no need to soak for longer than that in majority of cases. There are some seeds of trees or tropical plants that require longer soaking, but not commonly grown veggies.

The downside you’ve mentioned - since I grow almost all veggies from seedlings, unified, fast germination is what I want. I want to have a tray full of uniformed seedlings, that’s why I select for shortest germination time with no delays. My veggies are being planted approx. 4 - 6 weeks after the seed germinates, and if weather is not good they can always wait.

As those tomato seedlings - when they go to the ground, no matter that they are multiple varieties, they are pretty much same size, and ready to be planted on a same day. With extended germination period, that would have been not possible.

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In my opinion have differents germination time is sometime good to to staggered a seedling.
The weather can be very bad for the firsts seeds but perfect for the lasts seeds to germinate. If the first seedling take a frost or extrem rain he will take late.The lasts seeds who will germinate after the bads conditions should grow more fast and be more beautiful that the firsts plants to germinate.

Professor Porcupine
I use this model of hermetic box the cover is as a greenhouse

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Seed after switching at sand paper

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Interesting… so no soaking till a tail pokes out?

I see, I think it’s a worthy goal. I may also select for the same. There’s a good reason why uniform germination is a good sign of domestication in plants, case & point!

This is great if you already do the work of timing them with the rain or you already have a maintained area where you control for these factors. Most cases this what I would do anyways, however if I am less involved with sowing & just want plants to there own thing in a more steward laidback approach, I can see the latter selection process fitting better.

Interesting… it’s like a plastic cup? I can use old Hummus Plastic containers for that also or any other ice-cream cup with a plastic lid.

Thing is, how exactly do you sandpaper the squash seeds? just randomly anywhere on the seed or a specific spot? Also is it better to simply nick the seeds (break off a little piece with your teeth/nail so water can seep in) or is the actual sandpapering process better at letting water seep in?

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You should use each transparent box

Citation[quote=“Professor Porcupine, post:14, topic:4785, full:true, username:VeggieSavage”]

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Apologies if I missed something, but:

I use containers with lids to soak seeds. In the past I was using ziplock bags, with paper towel or without, but it is less convenient. I put seeds into a clean container. The size of container is determined by amount of seeds. For small seeds, or small amount, I use pizza sauce plastic containers. For bigger seeds, or bigger amount of seeds, cheese spread, cake containers. I put seeds inside and add water. After half an hour I pour water out. A few drops and wet seeds stay inside. I put it in the warmest location in my house. I check daily if anything sprouted, if yes, I plant it. If I see that seeds change color to lighter due to drying out, I put a few drops of water inside, otherwise I do nothing.

I use permaculture concept of zones, where Zone 1 is the closest to the house, contains highly managed raised beds (so-called kitchen garden), and where focus is on the highest yield per area. In Zone 2, I have so-called main crop garden, where I grown crops for winter storage, like potatoes, corn, squash, yacon, beans. All I have said above applies to those Zones.

I have experimented with sandpaper/nicking seeds, etc. and in majority of cases it does not make any difference. It makes a difference for very hard seeds of trees, like Gleditsia, but not for squash. I nicked the side of the seed, or sandpaper it, no difference comared to soaking alone. But, no soaking - surely longer germination (sometimes just one day longer, but still…).

Also, in case of stubborn (old) seeds I have found that soaking in diluted peroxide helps, since it not only provides water to the seed, but also oxygen. I use it when no other methods help to bring old seeds to life.

I know that it might be harmful for endophytes, but if the seeds is not willing to germinate at all, peroxide helps, and endophytes not really.

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I do that method for seeds requireing cold stratification as it saves more space in the fridge (like apple seeds which germinate like a charm in the fridge). Sometimes I put apples in the fridge & forget about them until I find an actively germinating seed inside.

I just plastic ice-cream cups or plastic hummus containers (basically food trash) and it works great!

That’s something I forget to do :sweat_smile:, good idea! However what about seeds that like to germinate in cooler weather, like many mustards, peas/fava beans, ect?

This makes sense, the whole purpose of sandpaper method is to make a entrance way for water to penetrate. With very hard seeds it makes sense to sandpaper them because your fingernails aren’t tough enough (and some seeds aren’t worth putting in your mouth). Thankfully Gleditsia has edible seeds but they almost certainly require a longer pre-soak with the thicker seedcoat.

That’s a good tip as a final last resort. Altho if Oxygen is needed, you can simply just change water more often no?

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It is a myth that some seeds need cooler weather to germinate. They are just able to germinate in cooler temps, but germinate faster in warmer. It is always a matter of degrees time days. The higher temp (to some extent) the better. There is certainly not too warm in a house for them, unless you place them on a heater :wink:

Peroxide (a part from my article, automatically translated into English): In addition to its disinfectant properties, hydrogen peroxide acts as a signaling molecule that can initiate various physiological processes in seeds. Research indicates that hydrogen peroxide influences seed dormancy and germination by altering hormonal balance and activating specific genes associated with these processes. This dual role as both a reactive oxygen species and a signaling molecule underscores its importance in plant biology. Simply put, it signals to seeds that it’s time to wake up.

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Dwarf beans - seeds soaked for 30 minutes on the evening of 21st May, today in the morning.

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Those look good. What do you mean by dwarf beans? I’ve never heard of that before.