My sister sent me a video featuring the Conservatoire du goût.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=356765970592184&rdid=Npfw6b5ybUz5aLeM
Here is their website https://www.conservatoiredugout.fr/
Has anybody heard of them? They seem strongly into conservation of pure varieties with taste at the centre. Would it be worth reaching out anyway? @ThomasPicard @stephane_rave
The question being:
Is it possible to have a varied population with the taste consistently excellent? (not just somewhere between “good and excellent”).
In other words, are we trading consistent eating qualities (taste/texture) from pure varieties for better adaptability (from pest, climate etc) or can we have both consistent taste and adaptive population for other traits?
I’m not advanced enough into my populations to know… but I really hope so!
Would love to hear from people several years down the line.
thanks Julied
I never heard of them !
It’s great to see that lots of interesting initiatives are emerging with networking opportunities
I also discovered the American Culinary Breeding Network, which are in the varietal creation with culinary purpose on taste criterion :
Personally all my landrace vegetable projects are taste oriented, this is my main criterion.
On the sweet pepper project I created the starting grex with only early varieties but with excellent taste. The goal was precisely to have the maximum chance from the start… I would see how much of the varieties with very good taste can generate in the game of the genetic lotterie of bad things or not. no idea for the moment
In essence a landrace can be as staple in selected features as any staple variety once that trait has been locked into the population. That can take time, just as with conventional breeding, depending on how that trait is inherited. That would also be “broken” for a while always when new material is introduced, although effect might not be big in the whole population. Personally I think one part of the good taste comes from the fact that plant is adapted to the climate and can take the most of the conditions.
not necessarily broken if you introduce new genes from varieties that you have validated in terms of taste.
but the interest I have left is : good can generate disgusting?
my intuition tells me that it is difficult on some species (basil, zucchini,…) but that other species could quickly tend to return to a primitive type or bitterness and something else unpleasant comes back faster in crossing (potatoes, squash…).
your theory makes me think, but in this case all wild plants adapted to their environment should taste good 
The taste is so suggestive, a landrace with a good taste for me may be horrible for the one to whom I offered the seeds.
Yes indeed. Taste is so différent. Farmers where i am cook their veggies to an unrecognisable slurrie with 0 vitamins left. What tastes like a dangerous spitter bitter cucumber to the one, tastes like a strong nice cucumber to the other.
It’s genetic. And general tastes have changed toward bland tasting sweetish with less nutrients.
Happy to hear there are now official masters of universal taste who decide on the final end taste of tastes. A bit like the Eurosongfestival of taste. It’s going to be the best of the best of taste. We had better listen.
Whatever you introduce might have unexpected consequences. Just because something tastes good doesn’t mean that good taste comes from the same genes. A combination of those 2 might do something different. I wouldn’t be too worried about it however. Even a staple good tasting variety might not taste good some years due to conditions.
If left to just natural selection, chances are that they will return to a more unpalatable form over some time. If you select fruits each year it’s going stay more or less closer to a desired taste, even with some introductions, barring some cross with wilds that are absolutely nasty. It’s not all smooth sailing, but important is that is more smooth than rough.
So julied you understood it is complicated to give you an answer with so many parameters, opinions, terroir, unknown…etc 
I think Hugo has a bit of the truth: difficult to be guarantor of good flavors
but the approach of these organizations is commendable because too many vegetables arrive on the market when they have no nutritional value and a taste worthy of a tree leaf
My rather bitter response came from a gardeners perspective. I grow plants on rather poor soils. If i can get a harvest of healthy produce i am happy. I will find a way to make it palpatable. Add berries and apple to bitter tasting salads is a good trick.
I am happy anyway.
I am also happy i do not have to market this produce of mine. The public is , excuse my French, spoiled rotten lazy with the most horrible taste. We live in a time where the Kardasians rule, Dubaï concrète is a popular destination, pizza the haut cuisine, McDonald’s the norm, plastic tits and arses desired, a giant butt plug is considéréd art, architecture is grotesque and porn hub, tik tok and violent online vidéo gaming absorb our youth while we race towards world war III , and being anti war gets you labeled.
We could do with guidance regarding taste. But i’d emphasize cooking and love the way @malterod has at it with his students rather then having a team of overpaid urbanite soilphobic snobs tell me how wrong my veggies taste.
I don’t think the associations we’re referring here are urban snobs.
In view of the information read, they do a good job of raising awareness on the theme of taste and cooking and that alone is positive.
I got in touch with Culinary breeding Network, because I find their concept great: to reconcile Producer, Processor, Consumer around the vegetable project.
To make everyone understand the interest of the genetic diversity of our plants nothing better than the theme of good food. So yes it may seem funny to make a contest of the best tomato, but ultimately what matters is to create community, to pass on our passion for agriculture, that the cook shares his for the good products and if in the end it allows only 1 child to abandon the desire for fast food the bet is won!
The key to a better world is to build it, not criticize the one you don’t want.
In our association we try to make ecology fun: a little humor, a lot of love, and realization that shows EVERYTHING is possible.
Firmly on the love team here.
Why do you think i’m criticizing you? I’m having a go at compétitions in all their shapes and forms. Winner takes it all kind of stuff.
If it’s just for fun, i’m on board. I think you must agree with me that fundamental criticism is why we do what we do.
@stephane_rave @JesseI @Hugo
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.
After eating many disappointing squashes this year, I was a bit worried…
Thankfully, I’ve saved seeds individually with notes so I can decide what to mix or not to mix.
We are lucky not to have serious growing issues but space is a limiting factor for me. My plan for this year is to mix the very good - excellent as well as saving “pure” seeds of the varieties that do well in my area and taste wonderful (to have plenty of those seeds and a back up in the freezer).
Not sown them yet so I still have time to change my mind!
I regularly taste test recipes and share them with family and friends. It’s a convivial moment that I really enjoy. I’ve started doing the same with veg and I can’t wait to see what our mixes evolve into.
I’ve watched several of their videos on youtube. I like the fact they’re going further than the conservatoire du gout into breeding and improving varieties (not just accepting that it tastes wonderful but it’s late and disease prone or we can’t get the seeds every year).
The collaborative work farm to kitchen needs to involve seeds or we’ll get nowhere…
Ah i understand a bit better now. You had dissapointing pumpkins. I’ve had to take some off the land earlier than ripe. They weren’t of good taste either i found. The worms had no problèms with those. And i’ve kept the seeds because i like to retry them again this year. But i got land… So i can totally understand you’d like to use the seeds of the good ones… They’ll be pollinated by the ‘bad’ others as well, son there’ll be some dissapointing ones even if you only grow out the good ones.
You can landrace at whatever speed you and family/community wish.
If i were faced with your problèms, i’d only use the seeds of the good ones and save seeds of them again, only good ones. Then mix in the ones that’ll come in the seed train this year. Just grow good tasting ones and spread those seeds in the wider community through seedswaps which will get you even more nice new chancers. I’d keep the bad ones just in case you get some bigger plot later and can try to grow sparingly bad ones to mix them in anyway.
Do you have an idea why it didn’t work.? Too little sun/ too late seeding?
Some were random crossed maximas, fully ripe, but bland and too watery (even after waiting a couple of months extra curing). I also had some Marina di Chioggia, Black forest and Uchiki Kuri/potimarron that were amazing. I just wish I had more of them! ahah! I have to admit I have picky tastebuds (not snobbish… just if I can taste the difference, I’d rather eat the good stuff :p)
Thankfully I did a lot of hand-pollinating (the positive of not having a field!). So I’ve got some Uchiki Kuri x red kuri x sunshine F1, some Marina di Chioggia x black forest etc… I’ve done similar crosses for several things.
Acorn pepos have also been disappointingly bland. I’m hoping to transfer the delicata taste.
Butternut squash doesn’t grow well here on low imput. However tromboncino and Tahiti melon don’t seem to care. Shame taste and texture as winter squash isn’t great. I crossed various butternuts into Tahiti melon last year and plan to back cross again. Fingers crossed for reliable butternuts in a couple of years.
yes its work of selection and seeds by Culinary breeding Network is super interesting and goes much further from the Conservatoire du Goût which is a bit light but have the merit of pointing out good strains of eirloom varieties.
After looking at the concept of the events of this urban association and if I were in your case I would proceed as follows:
- search with your community for the squash you prefer to eat (each makes 1 maxima, 1 moschata, 1 pepo) So you make pure seed
- meet you at the end of the year for taste tests and cooking in common which is always friendly
- start hybridizing your selections (each makes X maxima, or X moschata, or X pepo) So you make landrace seed. in small gardens it is possible from 3 feet of squash.
- you pool your landrace by type (maxima, moschata, pepo) and you redistribute to the members by asking them to keep the seeds after validating the fruits