GMO Purple Tomato by Norfolk LANDRACE

Yea, I can’t think of any other GMO Seed Marketed to the home Gardener (Ornamental GMO’S weren’t a thing right?). I wonder what took so long, Regulations & Public disinterest? 3d printer of the future, Now that’s an interesting future, I’m sure there won’t be any unforeseen consequences or suprises hehe :grin:.

Should GMO’s be seen as a last resort when all Traditional Breeding methods & Epigenetics weren’t able to achieve the same thing?

Spicy Carrots!? Oh my :scream:. I’ve heard Tomatoes can also be Naturally Spicy, they have the gene to be but it hasn’t been turned on yet. Perhaps GMO can finally turn it on? Or even Better, combine Epigenetics with GMO using both.

It also does seem fun to see how far you can get without GMO. Kind of like a Challenge. I’d like to see GMO Compete with Heirloom & Landraces, Just to see who can breed the better Tomato. Perhaps even Yearly Contests can be held.

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I think it’s worth emphasizing how involved the process of gene editing is while being superficially simple as it explains both why GMOs have not until now been a pressing concern for home gardeners and smaller producers, and also what big social/moral/ecological effects might emerge in the future as GMO development costs drop.

So when I described the process of gene editing, I said a specific DNA sample is extracted from a donor sample, and injected into the DNA of a recipient. That is all true, but it’s not an easy process.

First, you have to sequence donor and recipient DNA and comb over the results to identify which genes code for specific desired characteristics. Any candidate donor genes need to be compatible with the recipient. Ie, if you injected the same snapdragon DNA into the human genome, it might very well NOT make all purple inside and out humans. More problematically, as many genes have multiple functions, or functions that are inactive in the donor but might affect the recipient, gene insertions could create unwanted side effects.

But also, genes arent something you or I can snip out of a DNA sample with craft scissors and paste in with glue. Its not something scientists in a lab can snip out with scalpels and insert with microdermal needles. Genes are snipped out by proteins and enzymes developed to snip at specific DNA sequences.

Developing and modifying proteins and enzymes is a whole field within a field. Protein folding modeling is one of the heaviest computational tasks driving the price of processors and video cards (aside from blockchain makework.

Then you need a vector, a virus/retrovirus/bacteria/parasite that inserts the donor gene at the right spot. And you need to modify that too so it picks up and releases at the sequence ends specified by you.

And then there’s growing out the recipient samples. You need a small number of cells in your recipient sample, so the sample gets in all the cells. That might mean growing your first individuals from tissue culture rather than whole seeds.

All this process to achieve changes that are very narrow. Until recently, we didnt need to worry about GMOs in home gardens, as there was simply no way anybody would sell enough seed packets to recoup the costs of making modifications relevant to home garden seeds

The only way GMOs were profitable until this year, was when selling seed on a massive commercial scale to the producers of the largest cash crops. Wheat, corn, and soy are the primary GMO crops. A purple tomato is probably pretty harmless, but it indicates that GMO development has advanced to the point that GMOs are on the cusp of being profitable to sell into the home gardener market.

One of the most widespread of GMO types is commonly known under Monsanto’s tradename “roundup ready”. Corn and grains have a sequence inserted that makes them immune to specific herbicides, which are then sprayed in doses toxic to all other life in these fields. Thats an ethical concern on its own, but whats worse is that Monsanto etc have gone after surrounding farmers for copyright infringement when their grain is cross pollinated by the Monsanto corn, or if farmers save seed from their GMO corn.

Its also theoretically possible to genetically modify seeds so they only produce one further generation, or are incompatible with other plants of the same species, so buyers become dependent on buying more seeds rather than seedsaving.

Now imagine those issues applied to the home gardener.

I dont think the process of genetic modification is inherently bad for health or the environment. Many GMOs could be neutral or even great. I do think purple tomatoes are a fun idea and probably completely harmless. However, I, like I think many people, am somewhat concerned about the profit motives driving GMO development, and that as it is becoming more prevalent, those impacts get more pronounced

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I don’t know how a home gardener would do tissueculture?

Monsanto is the big reason why GMO’s are hated, why spray toxins & when you could’ve easily landraced the pest problems away? Also if Corn Grain is cross pollinated by Monsanto Pollen why does monsanto sue the farmer & not the other way around? I can’t imagine an Organic Corn Farmer suffering damages due to loosing their organic label thanks to Mansanto’s Corn Cross Pollination.

THIS IS SCARY! Cytoplasmic Male Syndrom was already bad enough in some Hybrid Seeds, let’s not give them any ideas. It’s crazy to think we as plan breeders try to overcome Hybridization barriers & now Hybridization barriers are put in on purpose!? Yikes!

I share this sentiment, it’s how the technology is used that makes it dangerous. If we mimic how Mushrooms & Other Virus do it, learning from nature than perhaps we can avoid most of the unintended consequences right?

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I don’t know how a home gardener would do tissueculture?

I meant “you” as the generic you [whichever team is growing tissues in a lab] not you the individual I was replying to.

But actually tissue culture is a thing quite a few houseplant collectors have started up as a home business - definitely more doable than the rest of the gene editing process.

Also if Corn Grain is cross pollinated by Monsanto Pollen why does monsanto sue the farmer & not the other way around? I can’t imagine an Organic Corn Farmer suffering damages due to loosing their organic label thanks to Mansanto’s Corn Cross Pollination.

Yes, this was a specific case. A seed farmer sued Monsanto for endangering his crops which got pollinated by roundup ready pollen. This farmer had his corn tested, proving it contained Monsanto genetics to support his case. Monsanto turned around and countersued him for higher damages, alleging he was selling corn seed which contained monsanto genetics and using his own testing for his suit as evidence for theirs. Monsanto can afford lots of lawyer fees…

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Damn… that’s really messed up. Can we make GMO seeds open source? or would open source seed initiative not accept GMO even if I open the DNA Source Code? Perhaps that’s how we out compete monsanto?

Tissue Culture, what kinds of tools would you need to start? Is it kind of like growing mushrooms indoors or can Tissure Culture be done outside?

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Theres nothing preventing a hypothetical developer of a GMO seed declaring their creation open source. The big companies funding the development of GMOs have little incentive/likelihood to make this the norm.

Here’s a video about building a home tissue culture setup

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Awesome! Thank you!

The GMO Purple Tomatoes finally Showed up at the Grocery Store.


I’ve saved the seeds, let me know if anyone wants to trade for them?

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How was the flavor?

Tastes Exactly like a Red Cherry Tomato. Nothing unique flavor wise, only the purple color is unique. Still a decent tasting tomato but could use those heirloom flavors (Hence why someone should breed a landrace with it).

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Thanks for the update… I’m very torn with introducing GMOs into the garden. Round Up Ready corn is a no brainer in keeping out. But something like this, is that novelty? Is it a future risk for something we didn’t consider or test for? I just don’t know. I am very glad to hear the flavor isn’t superior, that way I’m only missing out on the color :slight_smile:

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I feel you! GMO breeding only Focused on color (Turns on 1 Gene Switch), Landrace Pollination Breeding (Turns on Multiple Gene Switches) hence why it often taste better with More Diverse Flavors. I think each has their place in breeding. The risk is minimal due to 10 years of testing & Snapdragon gene also being an edible flower. However these seeds are patented but Norfolk encourages the community to Breed, Save, Exchange (BUT NOT SELL) the seeds. Norfolk is not patent Aggressive like Mansanto but also not fully open source either. Ideally I don’t think Life should be patented, all seeds should be open-source for everyone to breed new varieties with.

You could always just wait for some gardener to breed a better tasting Tomato with the purple GMO gene (I’d do it). Or even better sideskip the GMO Tomato & use other methods of Horizontal Gene Flow to transfer genes from another plant without pollination. That way it’s like GMO but by Definition isn’t. You could also make the GMO yourself genes yourself, Imagine Making a BLUE Tomato that way!?

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I actually want to try and do manual crosses with the GMO Purple Tomato seeds that you have traded me a while back, and breed them as a community effort for flavor and larger size and grow them in the landrace style.

I just have to learn how to make manual crosses and grow a bunch of tomatoes to try this on.

Although, I don’t want to make them Promiscously pollinating though. I would want to contain it’s GMO-ness to itself, and isolate it far away from any future Promiscously pollinating ones always.

It would be cool to have the new and improved GMO Purple Tomato seeds as a community effort and shared with folks that don’t mind it’s GMO-ness.

Also, hi again Professor Porcupine :grin:

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That would be epic! The purple tomato is in need of flavor improvement, plus imagine beefsteak sized Purple Tomatoes!?
Really the current GMO Purple tomato is all the Color & Novelty with mid to eh flavor.

You could alternatively try grafting Purple Tomato seedling Scions onto other Tomato plants.
You may activate some horizontal gene flow but regular pollination still seems easier. I’ve heard some greenhouse growers use a vibrator or toothbrush to buzz pollinate the flowers.

It’s also something I want to learn more & get good at.

I think separation from them is a good idea. But trowing in some Promiscously pollinating Tomatoes into the Purple Tomato lots is good (As long as you still get to have Promiscously tomatoes separate).

Hello! :waving_hand: :smiley:

The problem here is that (If I recall correctly) some of the mixes we have available through GTS that are promiscuously pollinating are OSSI descendants, and that is directly at odds with the patented nature of the Purple Tomato gene, regardless of whether the company is aggressive or not at protecting said patent. That’s one reason I can’t have the Purple Tomato in my garden… I’m working with way too many OSSI varieties and promiscuously pollinating varieties together to risk getting that gene into the population!

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I am strongly against working with the GMO tomato. I breed for organics and for open source and any level of contamination from these could threaten both those things. Please never contribute any tomato grown near these in any generation to the seed share. GMO is not allowed in organics so contaminated lines could not be used by anyone with organic certification. The intellectual property rights that the GMO status confers have a high legal standing.

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Thank you everyone for your posts, and making me see the other side of the coin. These concerns have have highlighted the larger implications at play, especially as we won’t be using greenhouses, and pollinators such as bumblebees can contribute to contamination.

After further consideration, I won’t work with GMOs either. It is risky for the public to work with these and potentially contaminate the seed supply unintentionally, even with the best-innocent intentions. More research would have to be conducted for best practices of these crosses.

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I see, that’s fair & Valid. One way to know is if the Purple Color appears in your landrace, it’s almost certain likely from the GMO Purple Tomato. If I understand this correctly even if the GMO Tomato Crossed with Normal Non GMO Tomatoes, if the offspring aren’t purple maybe the GMO genes haven’t been passed down (And only the non GMO Genes of the Purple Tomato Did)?

That’s fair, I won’t. Purple GMO Tomato Landrace will be it’s own seperate thing & the decedents thereof.

I wonder, is Horizontal Gene Flow allowed in Organic Gardening? Some of the Wide Hybridizations or using Parastic plants to facilitate transfering genes is not GMO right?
It’s only via Crisper like Technologies that it becomes what we think of as unnatural GMO?

The purple tomato from Norfolk is a transgene from snapdragons. It may also come with a marker gene of some kind used during the gene transfer process to identify the transformed cells. Transgenes are the oldest GMO technology. Transgenes are basically cut from one source and spliced into another.

Crisper and Crisper like technologies are much more sophisticated than transgenes. They can involve much more subtle edits to the genetic structure of an organism in much more precise locations than was possible with the older transgene technology. It is also considered to be GMO and not allowed in organics.

What is allowed in organics? Quite a lot. Mutation breeding is an acceleration of a natural process- so is allowed. Natural forms of horizontal gene flow would be allowed- but philosophically the more unnatural the process to try to induce the change- the less likely it is philosophically compatible with organic farming. Organic gardening rarely if ever requires a certification but organic farming most frequently does require certification.

I took a course on organic plant breeding about a year ago online from Oregon State University taught by Jim Myers. The cheaper route by far would be to simply purchase and read the textbook. Organic Crop Breeding: Lammerts van Bueren, Edith T., Myers, James R.: 9780470958582: Amazon.com: Books the book and or the course are very heavy on the philosophical aspects. It is after all a philosophical question isn’t it?

For me it is very much about ownership. I wouldn’t work with the GMO purple tomato because it has a durable patent protection that effectively removes it from the commons for at least the duration of the current patent. It is also philosophically incompatible with organic gardening and farming. It is also in my view a philosophical trojan horse as is golden rice.

The worst part is that because of the release of the Norfolk GMO tomato I can no longer trust other gardeners to trade tomato seed with them if I want to ever be able to sell or give my tomatoes I’ve developed to certified organic farmers. Ordinary tomatoes have arguably a outcrossing rate in general of around 1%. That means that contamination will inevitably spread from the purple tomato. Preventing it will be costly and a lot of that cost is the lack of trust I now have in other gardeners. GMO contamination has been a normal status for other crops like corn for much longer.

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The irreversibility of contamination is a major issue for me with GMOs. The methods used are weird to me and many others, and I’d rather use the principle of precaution. How are we being careful if all corn becomes contaminated with GMO and we have no way back?
Also the argument that GMO are ok because we’ve been doing traditional breeding is one I’ve seen online for years. Not the same thing to me.

Cosmic purple rain is not fully purple but has high levels of Anthocyanin if you are interested.

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