Then, I have no idea why did this happen, everyone who saves seeds must have so much seed from varieties he/she is growing regularly. My freezer’s seed section is so stuffed with seed, that I can hardly add more (it feels like sin to throw out viable seeds).
Maybe many of us are not new only to diversity ideas, but to seed saving as well? Seems unlikely to me, because I had to dig deep to discover landracing ideas and this platform and it would not happen by accident.
I’m a total newbie to adaptation gardening; I was attempting to do landrace gardening, but was moving around relatively much so that was a bit of a failure.
This spring I’ve bought new seeds and have some saved from last season and now am swapping/receiving from the EU Telegram group 
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I stumbled upon adaptation gardening via permies.com and everything ‘clicked into place’. For me it was like falling into Paradise gardening. Here, in this group I found variety, abundance, community.
Yesterday evening I was reading this thread and grew increasingly sad. The Paradise box was depleated…
This morning I’m looking at the situation and see community looking at a problem, trying to fix it. That is wonderful!
The situation resembles a bit of foraging; one should only take what one needs, in a way that it’s not noticeable (harvesting lightly over many, many plants) and leaving the place better than they found it if possible, so tending to nature in return. It’s super sad to arrive at a spot and find it overharvested, visibly ‘robbed’.
I like UnicornEmily’s tip about keeping different kinds of varieties (“early”, “northern”, “drought tolerant” etc.) within a pant (“tomatoe”) apart. That would help the ‘forager’ to pick more lightly and tend with more attention.
As with all things in nature, we need to be sensitive to the balance of things…
I’m very much enjoying the different voices in the threads. The different personalities all contribute to the whole. Thank you! 
I also think it makes sense to at least have warm vs cold climate stuff separate. The sad truth is that most of my crops can be grown in better locations, if nothing else, as a winter crop. My favas that I grow in my total garbage ”summer” will overwinter in Southern Hungary/Croatia etc. But I can’t grow a good 80% or more of the box at any given time even if I really wanted to, although I do try from time to time.
I would truly appreciate if also known this or that resistant material was separated out. Say if you happen to have a late blight resistant tomato with 53% wild genes in it, don’t blend it down into the generic tomato bag por favor…
Let’s keep the serendipity seedtrain going. Let’s have mixed bags organised in a usefull way, but also keep separate special accessions.
If it still weights a kilo sans the packaging it can’t be that depleted. Also the pleasure in the seed train is not only in taking, but also in giving! Maybe even more so. From the people still in line I know Jürgen has got plenty to add. Also no one is dependent on the train to grow anything. There is a myriad options to get seed for planting including direct swaps and the starter kit. So it doesn’t matter when someone recives it. Most seed will still be viable the next planting season.
When it reached me last autumn some things were pretty low. I just finished them off, the 10 beans or 10 squash seeds, by taking it all. Other things I took whatever I thought I could use and gift further, but never more than half of the bag.
Then I added something of everything I had back in. My grexes, seed I saved from a plant I liked, the seed I pulled out of a melon I bought in the shop, seed I bought somewhere that I didn’t need so many. Normal stuff, unusual stuff. Some in a seperate bag some added to the exisiting mixed bag. One thing I feel guilty about is adding so much of the melon seed I pulled out of that tasty store bought fruit into the mixed bag. It should have been added as a separate accession and not swamp a mix.
Basically my two cents: let’s keep it going, keep it fun and surprising, it’s at least as much about giving as it is about receiving.
I like the idea of a community grex that we grow together. Something along these lines: keep total seedcount in the train more or less stable by taking let’s say max 25 % out and filling back in with our own mixed seed. Grow out the grex (the 25 % taken out plus own seed from prexious year, perhaps the other 50 or 75 %). Post pictures and repeat the next year and see where it goes. It might be a fun community building activity.
Hi Jacek! Nobody said we’re stopping the seed train. It’s evolving. But how?
Too many new people have come who add no seeds.
Which clearly is a problem, because it crashed. Not worth to send on according to Marcela.
For new people they can come to the Starter Kits. We share excess seeds. Great grexes. But no, not all this diversity. That can come later if we know what they do how they garden if they contribute. Then they can get the candybox-store of seed love called the seed train.
I would say that the reason that some people get it when it is very low is enough to look into ways how to improve the whole operation. Of course some seeds weight more, and some less and in terms of weight it is difficult to follow and stay on the same level because someone might take 30 bean seeds, and add 30 lettuce seeds. It will be lighter by default.
Also I think that putting in separate bags would make the whole process more accountable and we would also know whom to contact if we want more seeds of specific crop so we do not take a lot of everything.
I put this topic out to see what we can do about the seed train in general because we also had some talks about it during our online meetings. Currently there is still some diversity in cucurbitas bag with some moschatas, melons, cucumbers.
Other categories are full of bags from last year, that have few seeds inside, and some are empty. So I would refresh it for sure before sending it forward. And many bags have like 10 percent of what could be there.
If I add a lot of seeds now, the next person might again take a lot, and the third person will have very little to choose from. We need to find some kind of a balance. Because if someone wants a lot of seeds of one or two crops from me or anyone else, we can do direct exchange. It would be nice to keep as much diversity for as long as possible, so that the next 10 people benefit from it 
At least that is my perspective.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot in the last few years (from a seed library perspective, but also observing the US seed share and other seed circles).
Are we trying to do too much with a single program/one box of seeds? Would it be easier to have several “branches”?
It’s clear from the discussion that one size doesn’t fit all. Can we break it down?
experienced growers/breeders with advanced projects. They are looking for specific seeds (so direct exchange or seed train probably works best for them). They have quantities of extra seeds that could go towards other branches of the project, some seeds out, but very specific
experienced growers/seed savers but in the early years of adaptation gardening. They would benefit from getting maximum diversity as quickly as possible to get going. A collective seed swap works really well. People send their seeds then receive a mix of everyone else’s. No need to wait a turn for a seed train (or find out all the seeds you were interested in are gone), although the train is a great extra surprise/more niche crops. Some seeds in, some seeds out (quite even), extra can go towards other branches.
growers interested in adaptation gardening but don’t have much to contribute. They would benefit from a starter pack (or similar system). That means seeds out, nothing/or very little in (but they might come back in the future with seeds to contribute).
another branch would be wider distribution: schools, community projects, other seed libraries, members of the “public” etc. Share the joy! Seeds out, realistically not likely to get much back, but if it’s integrated in a sustainable system, does it matter? is it not worth it anyway?
Somewhere in the middle of that it would be good to have a back up/grow out branch. Living seed bank, freezer back up, specific grow outs etc. Would this be the key to a long lasting sustainable system?
Another thing to keep in mind is the accessibility to the program. Not everyone is tech saavy/has access to whatsapp, telegram, download this or that, or comfortable using forums. Would it be possible to have a simple, basic email for people to get in touch?
Anyway, my 2 cents from a European in the UK…
So it has crashed! Already. Time to steer new members towards starter kits.
For now nothing is set up, except ad hoc at Telegram Adaptation Gardening channel.
Well at least people in line will get something thanks to you.
These news make me a bit sad. What happened? I want to approach it like I do crop failure, as a learning opportunity for the project. We managed to have the package travel around Europe for one and a half year and continually grow both in volume and diversity. At times, people have been so generous that the weight has grown to its limits and we’ve encouraged people to take a bit a more than they’ve added.
Now it seems we’ve encountered the pitfall of exhausting the package. Your suggestion @marcela_v is to divide what is left for the people next in line. That would mean we lose the very last diversity in the package. Personally, I would propose we freeze the box and wait for seed harvest season - or, if letting it continue (given people are interested), to allow it to build up again. That would mean adding more than you take.
In the beginning, the rule was Take whatever you want and add at least as much to the package. I changed that rule according to people’s suggestions, because logically the package could not grow indefinitely.
This is what the rule is now:
When you receive the package, take whatever you want and add your own. If you’re new to the community and don’t have as much to share as you would like to take, don’t be shy. Remember that you’re doing work for the group by growing out the seed and sharing the next generation.
We already understood you can’t keep “adding more than you took”. I propose changing it to “Take whatever you want and add about as much to the best of your ability. If you decide to take much more than you’re adding, please let the community know what your plans are”. I think there can be good reasons to dig deep in the seed bags from time to time and we will all benefit from someone doing a massive grow out for example. We just need to know about it.
The other thing I would add is we have a norm for posting a short status of how it was to open the box - how many seeds there are, what your experience was (wow and ooh!) and perhaps some pictures. We’ve done this mostly as motivational posts and having fun together. I think another purpose this can serve is that it maintains a bit of common assessment of the highs and lows of the box - as well as some accountability. On that note, I want to invite the last handful of people to pitch in and help us all reconstruct what happened. I wonder if perhaps the story is pretty simple. Pinging our good friends @Tanjaeskildsen, @Richard, @Shao and @mare.silba. How full or empty was the box when you received it and can you help us learn something about what happened?
For me the experience was totally contrary to Marcela @malterod . When I received the package this time it got more packages of species than last two times and the box was heavier, maybe 200+ envelopes? Probably the last two times when I received the box was like 1/4 of this one. At least for my part i did not finish any envelopes of seeds, so genetic diversity was still there.
Sure, the objective this time was different because most of the same species was packed in the same envelope instead of multiples, and it can have the impression that there are less diversity in general.
Maybe for corn and tomatoes the seeds were very low, but there were so many new species that it did not matter at all.
I think some people want some of this serendipity box different that was the original objective. Like all the varieties separated, and they do not want all mix together. For my part and most of the people here I think we just landrace the seeds and it makes total sense that is all mix together. And is also easier when you received the box. So for my part I will recommend to continue like now. I think this box is for getting diversity in terms of species and is not for advanced gardeners that only want some specifics genetics or traits from one specie.
I would propose we continue like now. 40 success pass trades i will call a win, and we can do more.
Hm, I wouldn’t divide everything that is left. There are really small quantities in most packages, so I would keep that in the box, and there are some types of crops that there is still nice amount - like mochatas from Thomas, melons (mostly Mallorcan), and some watermelons, very little of the bean population. I would send some of those seeds that there is still some more to the next 4 people.
I would look into each person’s needs waiting on the list at this point.
For example, one person reached out saying he only wants promiscuous tomatoes. There are none in the serendipity. If he has to wait for another 2-4 weeks for the serendipity package to reach him, his planting season is delayed, or not even possible anymore. So it is better at this point to send him directly some of my seeds of promiscuous tomatoes because there is none in the serendipity. It is way more economical and timely at this point from my perspective.
Then another person in the Netherlands reached out who would receive the package maybe end of May or even in June, but if I send seeds she wants from the serendipity and my grexes in several days, she will receive it next week, and have comfortable time to work with them, multiply the seeds and have more diversity to contribute with in autumn.
Does it make sense what I am saying?
I was surprised by this news as the package had only grown in size and weight.
I had it back in February and it was much bigger, heavier and more species rich than the previous year. I’m trying to come up with a theory because it doesn’t quite make sense to me… but one guess is that the main/staple crops had been getting depleted even as the number of different species in the package was growing. I’m not sure if that was true; my perception at the time was that the box was almost too big, too heavy. It’s possible that root vegetables were quite low, but it wasn’t my interest this year so I didn’t focus on it.
Also, Cathy had the package before me and we each grow a lot of the same, heavy seeds, especially legumes (favas, peas, runner beans, common beans, etc). I think the legumes had been pretty depleted before the box got to Cathy… we each topped up the legumes section pretty good, but there’s only so many legumes that can be added at once (if overall weight is a concern). Cathy and I are geographically close, but it could also work that “heavy seed people” would be spaced out in the chain order. I say this more theoretically, as I think we are trying to avoid too much micro-managing, but it could be a factor in how or why certain seeds get depleted.
Great, I understand now and that makes sense. I can support your idea.
They are def. not selected for blight or any other fungal disease in my experience😅
Yes, my impression is also that some packages remain untouched and are in the box for 1 year already, and others that are more frequently planted so they run out pretty fast.
So maybe one of the possible solutions would be to decide which crops we want to focus on to have in the box… I don’t know.
What is really depleted (from staple crops) is beans, corn, tomatoes, sweet peppers, root vegetables, lettuces, tps, maximas, most brassicas (except leafy kale and mustard greens), alliums…
I was blown away by the diversity in the box, but my interest was also on perennial vegetables, herbs and alliums for which there were lot.
There were no moschata squash when I received it, so I topped it up with mine, plus lots of edible gourds, c. ficifolia, grain corn, sweet corn, heat tolerant beans (limas and cowpeas) and lots of fava beans before handing it to Richard.
I am thrilled to see that TPS is depleted: in this last round, I saw my own TPS I’d added last year so I am very very happy to hear the box now is low on TPS. That means my TPS is now being grown, not just traveling around in a box.
By the way the incoming box to me weighed around 3kg and arrived crushed/damaged. When I sent it on to Matt it was 7 something.
To be clear, Cathy was in the process of moving so she sent her seeds un-integrated into the serendipity box. I then filled her seeds and my seeds into the appropriate pouches until I deemed them “full”. And she had separately agreed that the surplus would go to Roosa.
Soooo, this is just to say that the box probably continued at 4-5 kg rather than 7. I had in mind that we were trying to keep the parcel from getting too heavy, but now I’m questioning that assumption.
Either way, I don’t think that quite explains the depletion. Maybe it is something similar to what Emily mentioned in the other thread, idk. I think the consolidated pouches are good because everyone can contribute a few of their best seeds to “outcrossing tomatoes” or “large maximas” (even if they aren’t yet growing a diverse population themselves).. but maybe this also means fewer seeds get added to those bags… for example, I could have added a large, separate bag of “Carol Deppe Sweet Meat” maximas (I did this previously). But this time, I added a smaller amount to the “large maximas” so as not to throw off the proportional diversity.
But, yeah, I agree it’s good seeds are being used and I think it’s probably not too hard to reboot the package. If desired, I can send diverse populations of favas, bush beans, runner beans, pole beans, and I think I have quite a few outcrossing tomatoes (big hill, panamorous) from 2 years ago.
Yes this is true, the total weight included the parts meant for you and Roosa 