Lulo/Naranjilla (Solanum quitoense) x Cocona (Solanum sessiliflorum) Landrace

[VeggieSavage (Professor Porcupine)]

I’m curious about starting a Naranjilla Landrace (Solanum quitoense) but I’m curious if these frozen fruits will contain Viable seeds inside. I think they will because fruits act as a protector for seeds but I want to have a 2nd opinion on this before I buy them.

What do y’all think, will these be viable for me to start a landrace with?

Solanum quitoense belongs to the Subgenus Leptostemonum (Same as Eggplants) but in a different section, section lasiocarpa. Could eggplants help mentor graft them? Maybe I can make these cold hardy as a Breeding goal? Any thoughts or advice?

UPDATE

I Found a Phylogenic Tree for Lulu (Solanum quitoense), showing which species are closely related. I think all the Solanum section lasiocarpa can cross, now it’s time to figure out which species is the most cold hardy and sweetest!

Chloroplast DNA phylogeny of Solanum sect on Las ocarpa | UScholar Works

Confirmed, Cocona (Solanum sessiliflorum) can cross with Lulo (Solanum quitoense). Offspring had more vigour, Bigger than Lulo with Orange inside flesh. Lulo Pollen x Cocona Ovary cross developed fruit with hybrid seed, but not a single seed was found in F2 (I bet it’s due to lack of introgression & Mentor Pollination!). The Naranjilla, Cocona and Their Hybrid, NewCROP, Purdue University

Lulo (Solanum quitoense) Readily crosses with Solanum hirtum (It has root rot nemetode resistance), this means entire section can readily cross with each other. Another thing to note is, Eggplant (Solanum melongena) is not far phylogenically, very likely graft compatible!

[eArthur (Arthur Wierzchos)]

Im not sure if the seeds will grow for you, but id say it is worth a try!

The fruits are delicious. I was growing them in Hawaii at a higher and cooler elevation. My plants were all started from seed initially. I used dibble tubes in order to save space, which allowed me to get over a hundred starts from only a few fresh fruits. More than half of these i discarded because they had gnarly thorns. I selected for only the smoothest leaves and stems. These ended up growing crazy fast - actually becoming a problem. They grew TOO well. It was a good problem, though.

Anybody that would come by to visit my place was often attracted to the beautiful ornamental foliage, and they would almost always want to rub the leaves in their hands to feel the velvety texture.

When time came to cut them back and throw the stems into a pile - the pile would often sprout and grow new plants. I could take a stem and just throw it on the ground in a random moist space without having any soil on top, and it would still make roots, find the soil below, and grow.

This is definitely a plant I would also love to try to landrace for a colder climate…

[VeggieSavage (Professor Porcupine)]

@eArthur

Im not sure if the seeds will grow for you, but id say it is worth a try!

I know seeds inside a frozen tomato still remain viable. I think it’s cuz the fruit acts as a protector for the seeds. Since Lulu is also a Solanum, is it fair to assume seeds inside will be viable too?

@eArthur

The fruits are delicious.

I’m not so sure about that, I’ve heard they were incredibly sour and just only a tad bit sweet (Perhaps breeding goals are making it sweeter?). How do you eat them? Specaility produce says the skin if tough, leathery & inedible. Is this why they are in the Eggplant Sugenus?

Lulo

@eArthur

More than half of these i discarded because they had gnarly thorns.

Yikes! Well that explains why they are in the Eggplant subgenus . Can’t I just graft these onto eggplant or any other solanum?

@eArthur

These ended up growing crazy fast - actually becoming a problem. They grew TOO well. It was a good problem, though.

Won’t frost kill them or deer?

@eArthur

When time came to cut them back and throw the stems into a pile - the pile would often sprout and grow new plants. I could take a stem and just throw it on the ground in a random moist space without having any soil on top, and it would still make roots, find the soil below, and grow.

WOW! Now that’s a useful trait. That would make breeding easier as I can just easily clone the best fruit to heavily lean the breeding population into one direction.

@eArthur

This is definitely a plant I would also love to try to landrace for a colder climate…

What other wild relatives do you know? It could be smart to look for more cold hardy wild version if they exist. It’s how cold hardy tamarillo was bred.

[RayS (Ray South)]

I’m tempted to grow some in the greenhouse. I’ve tried it twice outside but frost comes not long after they flower. Too may things clamouring for attention!

[eArthur (Arthur Wierzchos)]

So many great questions. I don’t yet have answers for a lot of them, but will definitely be following along on this topic and learning from what everybody is able to share. Thanks for making this post!

@VeggieSavage

I’ve heard they were incredibly sour and just only a tad bit sweet (Perhaps breeding goals are making it sweeter?). How do you eat them? Specaility produce says the skin if tough, leathery & inedible.

It is true that the fruits can be very tart. Even too tart. I do know that there is a lot of variation between seedlings, and sweetness is a trait that can definitely be selected for. With the fruits I was growing they would be very sour when picked while still firm to the touch, but if i let them sit for 2-4 days, and allow them to turn into a softer texture, then they would end up getting more sweet, and very much resembled the flavor of kiwi.

One of the more annoying things that I would also want to select against is the fiberglass-like fuzz that that covers the fruits. It does easily come off when rubbing with a glove or cloth, but when working with bare hands, as I usually tend to do, it can become an irritant with larger quantities.

Aside from the fiberglass-like fuzz the skin did not bother me. After cleaning I would usually cut the fruits in half, and scoop out the edible portion inside with a spoon.

@VeggieSavage

Can’t I just graft these onto eggplant or any other solanum?

I never thought of trying this, but it could be a fun experiment!

@VeggieSavage

Won’t frost kill them or deer?

I wasn’t dealing with deer in Hawaii, so I am not sure. Im guessing that the answer is yes. And I do believe that Lulo is not able to handle frost. If I am able to acquire fresh seeds and begin growing them here in zone 7 Poland climate, then I will likely start them indoors during the winter months, then out plant as early as possible when the dangers of frost have passed. I do think it could be possible to get some to grow and produce fruit before the next frost arrives, but the question is if would be worth the effort? The plants can get rather large and take up a lot of space without offering a worthwhile return of fruits.

[VeggieSavage (Professor Porcupine)]

Yea Greenhouse is still neccesary even if goals are to move the landrace outdoors. I wonder how much cold hardiness can be transferred into Lulo. Bittersweet Nightshade Solanum dulcumara is relatively Cold hardy, I want to mentor graft young Hybrid Lulu Seedlings onto Bittersweet Nightshade to see if Cold Hardiness is transferred or improved!

[VeggieSavage (Professor Porcupine)]

@eArthur

It is true that the fruits can be very tart. Even too tart. I do know that there is a lot of variation between seedlings, and sweetness is a trait that can definitely be selected for. With the fruits I was growing they would be very sour when picked while still firm to the touch, but if i let them sit for 2-4 days, and allow them to turn into a softer texture, then they would end up getting more sweet, and very much resembled the flavor of kiwi.

By Kiwi flavor, I assume your mean closer to green kiwi & not the sweet yellow kiwi? Hmm… If I but these frozen fruits & let them thaw out, will they dry? If it turns out that they weren’t fully ripe lulo from the frozen bag, do I let the slightly unripe fruits sit on kitchen counter longer, so that it fully ripens like green tomatoes can & do (Or is Lulo special & this doesn’t work? I’ve heard you can ripen unripe lulo fruit off vine but is it true)? I always wait till my fruits are SUPER RIPE because that’s when they taste the best, I eat my kiwi when soft & wrinkly, I don’t like overkill sour fruits, and kiwi’s have the pineapple painful kind of sour. Does Lulo have the painful kind of sour? Is lulo sourness similar to Kiwanao (Cucumis metuliferus)?

@eArthur

One of the more annoying things that I would also want to select against is the fiberglass-like fuzz that that covers the fruits. It does easily come off when rubbing with a glove or cloth, but when working with bare hands, as I usually tend to do, it can become an irritant with larger quantities.

Oh dang! Fiberglass-like fuzz!? hmm… that must be some kind of insect discouragement. But I never even considered this, your experience is valuable to me, so thank you for the heads up! Is this something to watch out for in frozen form like the ones I plan on buying at grocery store?

@eArthur

Aside from the fiberglass-like fuzz the skin did not bother me. After cleaning I would usually cut the fruits in half, and scoop out the edible portion inside with a spoon.

Nice! Skin easily separates from edible inside flesh? Can I suck the gel off the seeds Like I do with my Grocery Store tomatoes (I saved 1000s of seeds this way).

@eArthur

And I do believe that Lulo is not able to handle frost.

not yet . But in all seriousness, it’s important to understand how specifically it doesn’t tolerate frosts. I know some mature tropical trees get leaf die-back but lignified trunk still remains alive, some only have roots survive like in Passionflower. Some plants start to die even before frost has been fully reached, some can handle short periods of frost if it’s for like an hour or 2, others instantly die.

What are species limits of Lulo? Which species has the most cold hardiess limit & which ones can we combine so the offspring can out do it’s parents?

@eArthur

If I am able to acquire fresh seeds and begin growing them here in zone 7 Poland climate, then I will likely start them indoors during the winter months, then out plant as early as possible when the dangers of frost have passed.

Hmm… If I manage to buy the fruit & save seeds, would you like some?

@eArthur

I do think it could be possible to get some to grow and produce fruit before the next frost arrives, but the question is if would be worth the effort? The plants can get rather large and take up a lot of space without offering a worthwhile return of fruits.

Ah so like with peppers & tomatoes right (Both Technically are perennial, frost just kills them)? If so why can’t you direct sow Lulo in ground to later dig it out into a pot for winter like people do with peppers? People have done 4-5 years out of the same pepper plant, and these plant transplants fruit faster than when starting all over from seed.

I’m sure Lulo can fruit faster if done like this right? But only problem is how do you make Lulo Go dormant to survive winter? I’ve seen people prune back their pepper plants back hard, leaving basically no leaves but only the most sturdy branches. Can Lulo handle that treatment? or will it just simply refuse to go dormant?

[VeggieSavage (Professor Porcupine)]

I just read on cultivariable “Berries should be protected from frost. Depending on how gradually the temperatures have declined and how ripe the berries are, they may have a high enough sugar content to avoid frost damage, but this is not reliable. A freeze will generally destroy any seeds in the berries if it lasts long enough to penetrate, so don’t store berries in an unheated shed where they might freeze.”

True Potato Seeds (TPS) - The Cultivariable Growing Guide

I’m wondering if this applies to frozen Lulo fruits at the grocery store? Knowing that Lulo fruits are more sour than sweet, does that mean seeds inside will be less viable because there isn’t enough sugar to act as an anti-freeze for the seeds inside a frozen lulo fruit? But if fruit is fully frozen, won’t the frost have penetrated to the seeds & render them nonviable?

Both Potato berries & Lulo are solanum species (Different subgenus). I know unripe tomatoes can ripen off vine, same with potato fruits but can Lulo ripen off vine too?
Also does the gel around Lulo Seeds work as an Anti-Freeze to keep seeds viable even if fruit is frozen? Does it work like that for tomato seed gel? What about solanums that don’t have much of a seed gel?

[Lauren (Lauren Ritz)]

I don’t know the answer. I do know that tomato and black solanum seeds can both overwinter in the ground. Most temperate plants can to some extent.

I suspect most tropicals can as well, or whole species would go extinct with a single freeze.