Mustard Sauce & Seed Oil Landrace (Canola + Others)

Adaptation Projects
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Is it possible to breed safe mustard seed oils by selecting for taste alone (Only using mildly/heatless mustards as a seed oil)? Canola was bred to have very low levels of erucic acid (The Toxic part of Mustard seeds in High Concentrations). Is Erucic acid the part that causes mustard seeds to be spicy? Cuz I’ve eaten Sinapis alba seeds (Yellow Mustard), they were heatless but gave me the same weird stomach feel I got from hot Mustard seeds, can Erucic acid be heatless too? If so how do we go about breeding Safe Mustard Seed oils? Cuz Broccoli Seeds are DELICIOUS & not Spicy, they Barely give me any weird stomach feel. Even Radish seeds are mild, chewy & very delicious but they do give me weird stomach feel afterwards.

Is the weird stomach feel erucic acid or is Erucic Acid the spicyness?

From wikipeia “Mustard oil can have up to 44% erucic acid, a component of canola oil, which is deemed as a safe food ingredient for human consumption when the erucic acid level does not exceed 2% of the total fatty acids and the canola oil is pure.[8]” Which they sourced from the FDA.

But there also appears breeding low glucosinolate content is important. So which is it, Glucosinolate or Erucic acid that’s toxic in high concentrations & Spicy? If I can use taste to determine toxicity in concentrations, I think breeding a Seed Oil Landrace is possible!

Also does selecting for seed oil negate making high quality mustard? Will Heatless Mustard seeds still make good mustard? I’ve tried mixing Grocery Store mustard with Maple Syrup & it made the BEST Tasting sauce I’ve ever tried.

Here’s what Forager Samuel Thayer said about Making Mustard with Brassica nigra

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Grind mustard seeds & Mix with Vinegar + another liquid. Is it really that simple?
Applesauce helps balance out the heat?

Can we make Mustard sauce or Seed Oils with Other Brassicaceae Family plants?
I really enjoy the flavor of Garlic Mustard Seeds (Allaria petiolata), could it make good mustard sauce or Seed oil?
What about Camelina (Camelina sativa), was historically used to make a very high quality seed oil but was it edible too or only for non-edible utilitary purposes like for lamps?
What about the Phylogenically Sister Genus to Camelina, Shepherd’s purse (Capsella bursa-pastoris)? Does it also have potential to make high quality oil? What about a higher quality mustard sauce?

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From a Study I learned Shepards-Purse (Capsella bursa-pastoris) can show les than 1% erucic acid & less than 6 µmol/g of glucosinolates in the seeds (Makes sense cuz high quality Camalina sativa is phylogenically sister to Capsella), seveal chromosonal fragments were successfully introgressed into B. napus & B. rapa. Oh!?

More importantly, anyone know how to press seeds for oil? I basically know nothing about it, what equipment or techiques are used or if it’s even practical on a small garden/at home scale? Apparently a Machine like this is used?

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Check this link:

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Thank you! Chat GPT gave me some good insights. Here’s what I’ve learned, I’m hope to get some feedback to make sure I understood correctly.

Erucic Acid is toxic in high consentrations but is not the part that causes Spicyness in Mustard seeds thus it can’t really be selected by tasting the seeds. Glucosinolates are also toxic in high concentrations, these break down into compounds that taste spicy/pungent. Sometimes Glucosinolates don’t break down into Spicy/Pungent compounds as is the case for Heatless Yellow Mustard (Sinapis alba) but they may still irritate the digestive system as evident by the “Weird Stomach Feel” I got from them despite being heatless.

This means I can elliminate all Glucosinolates (Even Heatless Glucosinolates) By selecting seeds that are both heatless & don’t give me a weird stomach feel. However this only eliminates Glucosinolates, Erucic Acid may still be present as it isn’t really detectable by Eating the seeds directly so I can’t properly weed out high Erucic Acid Seeds by Taste alone.
The only way to “Taste” select for Erucic Acid is by tasting the oil quality it makes. Mustard seeds can derive their oil content from Erucic Acid or Oleic Acid. Rapeseed cultivars (I know the worst possible Common name for a plant) are bred to be very low in Erucic Acid, mostly making up their oil content in Oleic Acid.

Erucic & Oleic Acid are both oily but have different texture/mouth feel, Erucic Acid taste bitter with Harsh Aftertaste, Gritty with a Waxy Texture or Coating Sensation vs Olecic acid is much milder, smooth light texture without the bitter or Gritty traits. I’ve never personally experienced this so I have no Baseline to judge it accordingly but the idea is you’d save seeds that made good tasting oil without Harsh aftertaste & Waxy texture. Of course the most ideal way is to get it Chemically Tested for Erucic Acid with Specialized Lab Equipment, typically quantified though Gas Chromotgraphy (GC).

I’ve also learned you can make mustard sauce with Canola but if you remove all the glucosinolates entirely, you’ll loose the traditional spicy pungent mustard kick. Is it still considered mustard sauce?

As for making mustard Oil, you can grind up mustard seeds, boil the mixture, wait for oils & water to seperate & Scoop off the oil. This is know as hot Press but Cold Pressing Mustard oil aparently preserves more nutrients.

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As for Cold Pressing Mustard oil, Both of these are great options for small-scale home-use.

  • A Piteba Manual Oil Press (Requires dedicated space work bench & a lot of Grunt Work)

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  • or an Automatic Oil Press Machine (Which can do both Hot & Cold Press & Press continuously for 24 hours).

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Does anyone know where to get Non-GMO Open Source Canola Oil Mustard seeds? I know Broccoli seeds taste great & may be a good alternative if I can’t get Canola.

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Does anyone know where to find Varieties with both Low Erucic Acid & Glucosinolates that are open source we could start a Canola Oil Landrace with? Most are known as LEAR (Low Erucic Acid Rapeseed) Cultivars but not sure bout the Open source status.
Nearly all are closed source industry secrets with most being GMO with CMS (To encourage Out-Crossing & exploit Hybrid Vigor), not to mention Monsanto got their hands dirty with lots of GMO Cultivars specifically bred to be resistant to their Glyphosate Roundup.

I’m hoping I won’t have to start from scratch.

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Just based on timeline, you’re far more likely to find a starting point in Canada than in the US. Is there a Canadian equivalent of GRIN?

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Broccoli seeds are delicious?! Oooh, what do they taste like?

I have never tried eating them, because I’ve always wanted to plant them. But now I’m very curious.

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Broccoli seeds taste like the seed version of Broccoli :joy:. I know it’s silly but they taste a lil nutty like a seed would but the aftertaste is especially very broccoli-like. They have no Spiciness to them & No Weird Stomach Feels (Which indicates None or Very low Levels of Glucosinolates).

If you can grow thousands of Broccoli Seeds like you would Canola (Actually Canola x Broccoli would be a very beneficial combo) I think it could work out. I bought Broccoli Micro-Green seeds from TrueLeafMarket. Even tho you’re suppose to germinate them & eat that, I really did enjoy the seeds on their own.

Have you tried eating Canola Seeds? They might be just as delicious, perhaps even better? Idk, even Chat GPT didn’t know what it taste like cuz almost Nobody eats them like that or even had the thought. Surely if it’s good for oil, it’s fantastic for mild tasting seeds!

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Good idea, I hope there is a GRIN type thing in Canada too. Altho you’d think the U.S. would also have some in reserve too no?

But are GRIN type seedbanks the best bet to find those seeds? Or do some Garden Centers sell Canola seeds too? I know @UnicornEmily found Canola Seeds on TrueLeafMarket but I’m not sure if the Erucic Acid is low enough for safe oil making. Might still be alright to make mustard with or as a “Semi-Wild” Veggie.

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I’ve never sampled canola seeds. My then-5-year-old nephew reported once that the leaves on the young canola plants in his great-uncle’s field tasted just like broccoli.
The reason to go to a seed bank is to find really old lines that pre-date GMO and CMS. But it looks like True Leaf Market does offer such a thing, so that is an easier source.

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Nice! Predate GMO & CMS to avoid it is what I like.
Can we Request Canola Seeds from GRIN Through GTS if I find them? GTS managed to get Melon Seeds last year, maybe Canola possible this year too?

I just don’t know if the TrueLeafMarket Canola is safe to make oil with or not, I found no tests on Erucic Acid Presentage (It’s probably not the average thing a Gardener looks for but it’s very important for safe edible oil).

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I haven’t eaten canola seeds, but have eaten the immature flowering heads like broccoli. Probably the ones I ate were GMO, come to think. Oilseed canola is widely grown in our region though not close nearby. But one plant just appeared, I’m assuming from seed brought in by a bird.

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This discussion of eruic acid is interesting. I wonder if eruic acid is what is present in tansy mustard. I’ve found that it makes my stomach feel a little not-too-happy afterwards. It’s not a big deal, but given that it’s also very spicy and my mouth doesn’t like that, I’ve decided it’s only marginally edible for me, and thus I won’t bother with it.

Oh, neat! Broccoli seeds do sound tasty! They’re so tiny that I’ve always considered it better to scatter-sow my extras as groundcover seeds than to eat them, but it would definitely be worth trying some, now that I know.

Unripe broccoli seed pods taste like broccoli, by the way. :smiley: If they’re too far developed, they’re tough, but if you get them when they’re soft, they’re excellent. Kind of a neat way to get more “broccoli” out of your broccoli plant – just let it go to seed and eat each of those flower buds as an unripe seed pods instead. :wink: Totally compatible with letting the first flowerbuds make seeds for you to save, too.

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oh my… so then GMO plants just escape cultivation & maybe found in the “wild”? If so, who’s gonna enforce patented GMO plants that escapes & cross pollinate with wild types? Surely this kind of situation happens no?

Wild mustards Brassica rapa & Brassica napus are kind of hard to tell apart from each other cuz B. napus is a *B. rapa x B. oleracea hybrid. Both species were bred as canola but B. napus Canola cultivars are more popular cuz they yield more oil.

It feels like almost all non-spicy immature flowering heads of Brassica taste like broccoli :joy:, and that’s a good thing, I love broccoli!

It’s likely it has Glucosinolates that don’t break down into spicy tasting compounds. Erucic Acid isn’t easy to taste from just eating the plant or seeds cuz the concentrations are too low to notice. It’s when you Up the Concentration (Such as in Oil form) that Erucic Acid is noticeable (It taste bitter with Harsh Aftertaste & Gritty with a Waxy Texture or Coating Sensation).

Even non-spicy Glucosinolates can upset digestion & give weird stomach feel. I’ve noticed this with Sinapis alba Seeds, they are heatless but give me a weird stomach feel afterwards.

Idk how much Erucic Acid Tansy Mustard (Descurainia spp.) have but it’s probably a good amount. Keep in mind, Seeds can be heatless and still have High Levels of Erucic Acid, those 2 are independent of each other. In fact Some Rapeseed cultivars are bred for Higher levels of Erucic Acid for industrial oils but with low Glucosinolates to double as marketable Live-stock feed.

Curious, which part of Tansy Mustard are you eating? Forager Sam Thayer says the Leaves have Strong Flavor & Should be used sparingly but Western Tansy Mustard (Descurainia pinnata) seeds are not Hot.

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I think you’re probably right. The turnip flowerheads (Brassica rapa) I ate last year tasted like broccoli. :smiley: Yummy stuff! :broccoli:

Actually, even hoary cress flowerheads taste like broccoli; it’s just broccoli that’s spicy. Which is why pouring hot butter on it fixes that problem quite nicely. :wink:

I tried eating the tansy mustard leaves, stems, and flower buds. I wasn’t very impressed with any of it; it was all hot and spicy, and my stomach wasn’t wild about it afterwards. (Not a really big deal, just the same kind of indigestion I get from eating too much garlic in one day.)

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Can anybody tell me what sweet potato leaves taste like I heard their edible but I know nothing about it and I don’t know if there’s even the right place to post it

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They taste like spinach, without the dirt aftertaste.

I personally prefer the leaves of kang kong (a.k.a. Ipomoea aquatica, a.k.a. water spinach), which is in the same genus as sweet potato. But the leaves of sweet potato plants are similar to the leaves of kang kong, and can be used in similar ways.

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A lot of Brassicaceae do altho Broccoli I find very distinctive even without the spicyness. That Family is a gold mine of Potential new crops!

YES! That’s exactly how I’d describe it, eating the spicy Mustard seeds. Tansy Mustard may just not be worth doing breeding work with.

Fantastic! I was curious as well. Should Sweet Potatoes also be bred for edible leaves? Or is selecting for good root automatically translate into good tasting leaves?

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I wouldn’t be surprised if there were sweet potato cultivars bred for the greens, rather than the roots, given that there are sweet potato cultivars bred purely as ornamentals. Still, I wouldn’t say that’s a niche that particularly needs to be filled, given that kang kong exists. Its leaves taste similar, just tastier, and it’s even easier to grow.

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And yet I’ve never heard of kang kong, and I’m sure others haven’t either, so why not work with a vegetable that is more well known and accessible?

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That’s true! My main answer to “why not” would be that sweet potatoes seeds are hard to come by, and kang kong seeds are easy to come by, and that’s an important consideration when it comes to plant breeding.

There are also quite a few distinct kang kong phenotypes, which offers an appealing quantity of genetic diversity to play with.

Sweet potatoes definitely have some advantages, though. Chief among them is that their roots can be stored in a dry root cellar (or fridge) for the whole winter, and kang kong doesn’t have big roots that can be stored like that.

In my experience from last year, kang kong stems can be kept in a vase full of water for three or four months, easily, as long as you change the water daily. They will root in a few days and keep growing and flowering. They’ll even make seeds if you pollinate them. So that would be an acceptable way to store them through the winter, and an acceptable way to get them to make seeds in a short growing season. Kang kong is an aquatic plant, so it’s perfectly happy to sit in water for months.

And to my surprise, despite being an aquatic plant, my kang kong last year turned out to be pretty drought tolerant, too. It could easily sit for a week in 95 degree summer heat with no rain and no humidity and keep growing along merrily. I was super impressed by how good it is at surviving.

Kang kong isn’t known very well outside of Asian cuisine, but my goodness, it should be, because as far as I can tell so far, it is an excellent garden plant.

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