Cabbage, Kale, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts are all the same species selected for different edible features. There are many Edible plants that have similar potential! Just imagine we did the same with other species! This what I call the “Brassica oleracea” effect.
Re-domesticate Squash via Interspecies Hybrids Swarms/Landrace (all cultivated 5 species). For Flesh
Re-Domesticate Melons, Crossing Dosakai x Casaba. (Breed Sweetest Melon with Savage Vigor)
Mostly because I know the most about these crops & have the enough diversity for. The only thing holding me back is having no Land to grow them on.
As for Dream Crops, too many to list but I have a plan for domesticating Mayapple Podophyllum spp..
I only have Yellow American Mayapple (Podophyllum peltatum) & need other species for diversity. Thankfully I’ve done a lot of Research on them so I know which species I want to use. If your interested, join me & let’s domesticate the Mayapple together!
I completely agree. Brassica oleracea is an inspiration to us all. (Let’s not forget collard greens, leaves selected for heat tolerance!)
Other Brassica species have been widely selected, too. Let’s remember that Brassica napus is grown for its seeds (canola), roots (rutabaga), and leaves (Russian kale), for instance. Every bit of it is tasty.
In general, I think anything that is entirely edible from top to bottom can be domesticated in a ton of different directions, and it would be really cool to see that happen.
There already is a parsley variety selected for its root! Hamburg parsley. I grew it one year. It has a nice root that looks like a white carrot. (Sadly, I only had one survivor, and I accidentally harvested it to eat, so I didn’t get any seeds back.)
Linden, hollyhocks, and other mallows . . . yes, absolutely. There are so many promising plants in the mallow family.
Creeping bellflower is delicious. The flowers are sweet and tasty, and the leaves have a nice flavor, too. They’re supposed to be a little bit fishy, and I slightly noticed that because I was looking for it, but I barely noticed it at all. Mainly they’re just a nice leaf.
Huh? That makes a lot of sense why it’s a southern favorite. It’s fascinating because heat tolerance was developed without Brassica nigra genetics, unlike Ethiopian Kale which is B. oleracea x B. nigra.
Collards really look like you made Kale have Cabbage Leaves.
Huh, I thought Russian Kale was pure Brassica oleracea var. sabellica this whole time .
2 ways to tell which species is by the way the Leaf Clasps the stem & if top or bottom flowers open first in the inflorescence. Will look into Red Russian Cultivars to see.
Brassica napus is a hybrid between Brassica rapa x Brassica oleracea, so they will share characteristics. I’m not sure why it’s still considered a separate species. Thanks for reminding me about Rutabega, I almost forgot that one.
Does this Hybridization Triangle make sense? It explains why Brassica napus looks morphologically in between both parental species (Same with B. juncea).
I wonder if anyone has seen what non rooted parsley roots look like so we can compare side by side. I haven’t been able to find photos of regular Parsley Roots that aren’t specifically bred for larger roots. It’s almost like no one takes pictures of these things ?
Interesting, very glad to know the fish flavor is only a hint, makes the greens sound appetizing! Have you tried the roots? There are so many members of that family, even ones that make Berries!?
They are called Spiderberries (Cyclocodon lancifolius).
Fruits edible raw or cooked (Typically Consumed fresh or made into juices). I haven’t personally but I’ve read it taste Mild berry flavor (more Insipid when underripe, but improves when ripened well), similar to blueberry in flavor & crunchy refreshing texture.
Brassica olerecea, Brassica rapa, and Brassica napus all have varieties called “kale.” Just to make things confusing. “Red Russian kale” is Brassica rapa, and “Russian Hunger Gap kale” is Brassica napus, if I’m remembering correctly. Which I’m hoping I am.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a triangle like that before for the Brassica species. It’s really quite interesting; it makes it look like the Brassica genus is really more of a species complex than a genus, but it would be fair to call it a genus if crossing happens rarely.
WHAT.
I’ve never heard of that species before. It looks neat. Apparently I need to try it!
Oh, but it looks like it may be tropical only, and rare . . .
(Sigh.)
If it’s tropical only, and rare, and the flavor is only okay, it’s probably not worth chasing.
Oh my, it’s quite confusing indeed! At this point the species blur so much . But technically if Kale means any non-spicy leafy edible part of a Brassica spp., all 3 species meet that criteria, Same with Ethiopian Kale (Brassica carniata = B. nigra x B. oleraceae). Mustards are any Spicy Brassica Greens to separate it from Kale.
If your mustard landrace becomes heatless, it’s becomes kale right?
Indeed, it sure feels like a species complex but it’s crazy Radish (Raphanus spp.) is in the complex too. What’s crazy is look how many species & Genera are in between Brassica nigra & Brassica oleraceae.
Even Radish & Arugula (both Directly Sister to Each other) are closer to Brassica oleracea than to Brassica nigra. In fact Brassica nigra was transfered into Rhamphospermum genus according to Wikipedia yet Brassica nigra appears directly sister to Sinapis arvensis which both do look very similar morphologically. Sinapis arvensis used to be Brassica kaber, same with White Mustard (Sinapis alba) which used to be Brassica alba.
Brassicaceae Taxonomy is very complex because wide hybridizations are common.
I don’t know if it makes sense to consider them as distinct genera or species. Kind of throws the strict concept of a species out the water
And with such wide hybridizations, makes the whole Phylogenic Tree not very strict too. In other words, wide hybridizations are Welcomed! Brassicaceae family is a Nightmare for the taxonomist but artistic fun for the Plant Breeder .
Agreed but it seems you can grow it as an annual in temperate climates (Much like How Peppers & Tomatoes are Technically Tropical Perennials but fruit in 1 year). Spiderberry Leaves are also edible somehow but I need more research to confirm.
Here’s the study where I got the phylogenic Trees from
What’s very interesting is, Napus Kale (Russian Types) seem to have been domesticated before the Canola seed oil cultivars. I don’t understand why it’s called rapeseed oil? What does rape have to do with a plant? I guess it’s a couption on the latin name Brassica rapa? Why can’t we called it rapaseed oil?
I think it’s fun to see scientist try to sort out where breeding lines came form. Makes me wonder what scientist will write papers about our breeding projects?
Thank you! It’s simple, I really want to garden but have no Land to put that effort into, so I just put all the effort & drive into researching & foraging. That way I can hit the floor running when I do get land. Been doing this for 5 years.
That may be the case! It would make sense if that’s the dividing line people use to generally distinguish between them.
Looking at the philogenetic tree, Brassica juncea, rapa, napus, and oleracea are a separate clade from Eruca vesicaria and Raphanus sativus, so I think you could claim the Brassica genus is a species complex and still exclude radishes (which, as far as I know, can’t cross with Brassica species – correct me if I’m wrong) . . .
. . . but wait, what is Brassica nigra doing all the way down there?
To answer your question about the original term for canola oil:
I got that from an AI.
Oooh. If spiderberry can be grown as an annual in temperate climates, that dials it all the way back into feasibility. Just like tomatoes, or sweet potatoes, or any other tropical perennials that can be grown as annuals.
Apparently you’ve found me another weird plant I want to grow, and I don’t know where to buy seeds of it. Nooooooooooo!
Indeed, but Brassica nigra is still a Brassica right? Exactly It’s way down there , what is it doing there. Well it seems very different from Brassica rapa & Brassica oleracea yet we know Brassica juncea is a hybrid between Brassica nigra x Brassica rapa, so what is going on in that phylogenic tree ?
I suspect the phylogenic Tree isn’t counting the Hybrids, I read my Phylogenic Trees paired with what I know is crossable. Thus it’s theoretically possible that the entire tribe is crossable, including Sea Kale (Crambe spp.) & Arugula (Eruca sativa).
Brassica x Raphanus is possible (known as *Brassicoraphanus"), it’s among the only inter-generic crosses to have created fertile genus of it’s own. That’s why that Brassica Triangle I showed you had Raphanus making hybrids with all the other Brassica species.
I think the Brassicoraphanus Landrace was one of the first posts I made on GoingToSeed Forums.
Yea Canola is a much better name than Rapeseed. I think Rapeseed should go down as in the Top 10 Worst Common Names of all time.
Yea it’s something I’ve been trying to figure out myself. So far the best I got is to order the fruits from China Directly as the fruits contain seeds inside. Idk how to order fruit from China to U.S. & it going thru customs safely. The other best bet is to find another gardener growing them.
@UnicornEmily also something weird I just noticed about the Phylogenic Tree. Rhamphospermum arvense & Sinapis arvense are both the same plant (Sinapis arvense is apparently the old scientific name). Yet why do they occupy differnt places on the Phylogenic Tree? Something doesn’t add up, either they’re separate species or one was mis-identified?
Or the scientific consensus about where it fits on the philogenetic tree is currently in dispute, or more genetic evidence came to light after the change in Latin names. It could be something like that.
Or the writer of the philogenetic tree was a little confused . . .
Perhaps, I think it’s reasonable to take most of these phylogenic Trees with a grain of salt (Especially among taxa that are known to hybridize so readily).
So many Scientific names change back & forth like with Brassica nigra for example. It is a Brassica yet a very different Brassica.
It’s kind of hard to make sense of the situation, especially when they all hybridize so easily.
Makes me wonder are they all 1 Huge Genus with many subgenera or actually many different genera that just happen to make intergeneric hybrids like with Rosaceae family.
I suspect somewhere along the line some of the species DNA analyzed to place on the phylogenic tree may be mis-identifed. I mean it’s not like the Author grew every single plant to confirm ID themselves, they probably got submitted samples form other people who may have Mis-ID them?
Yeah. I read in a botany book the other day the confident assertion that philogenetic trees are probably pretty close to fixed nowadays, because we know way more than we used to, and . . .
. . . well, yeah . . .
. . . but see, twenty years from now, we’ll know way more than we do now, so they’ll probably have changed drastically again.
It tends to amuse me when a science communicator confidently asserts that this time we understand it all, and there will probably be few breakthroughs from this point on that will upend everything we understand.
Uh huh.
People were saying that about physics before the discovery of the atom . . .
Fixed is the key word! How can something be fixed if hybridization happen, especially when we as gardeners allow happy little accidents Not to froget Epigenetics & Horizontal Gene Flow.
It is beautiful that I basically managed to find a Phylogenic Tree on virtually every wild edible or crop species I was looking for (Just not every tree was as complete or focused on the genus I was studying, like having to look for Tribe Level Phylogenic Trees when the Genus level didn’t exist to fill in blanks & other tips/tricks like that).
Looking thru, there is still SOOO many phylogenic trees yet to be made, I’m finding many even in 2024 that completly shifted the way we understand the genus. Often times the Phylogenic Trees update faster than the scientifc/taxonimic names can handle
Just ask the all over the place Polyphyletic Pimpinella genus Phylogenic Tree Apparently Apiaceae family co-evolved many ID traits independently thus the same ID trait can show up all over making ID classification difficult.
Humility is a must for truly learning something new! There’s always something new to learn but at what point is the info good enough? Illiterate plant breeders made corn by understanding that plants make seeds which can be saved & planted! It’s truly beautiful that this concept is so simple, yet infinitely complex (Enough to dedicate your whole life to & still have so much to learn). It really puts things into perspective.
Yes, exactly! Humility. It’s an essential part of the scientific process. Science is, at its very foundation, built on the basic, fundamental humility of changing your theories to match the evidence. That’s one thing I love about science.
It amuses me when ignorant people say things like, “Scientists hate this evidence because it contradicts this-and-that theory.”
Um. No.
Scientists get wildly excited and jump up and down and squeal like maniacs when they find new evidence that is replicable, consistent, and soundly contradicts an established theory. That means there’s way more fascinating stuff to poke at to learn more things. That means it’s time to invent a bajillion more experiments to see what unexpected new things pop out.
Well yea, I get why. Imagine you built your world view on this theory, attached your personal identity to that theory and then it gets dismantled . It feels like you yourself get dismantled in the process. I feel this happens when someone names a species after their name for discovering it only for phylogenic trees to show it wasn’t a different species after all . Many other examples like this but Humility is the way you never get butt hurt by this
Now it makes sense if the evidence is of poor qulaity or doesn’t resolve the whole picture yet, then there is still room for debate (Actually I think that’s almost always the case haha ).
I like that! Science is fun for sure! But I also like the artisitc route. Happy Little Accidents are often where the most out-of-the-box discoveries happen! If I recall correctly, that’s how the microwave was invented & how the Modern-day Strawberry was hybridized.
Just makes me think how many happy little accidents happen in the garden, waiting for a gardener to notice. It’s what makes landrace gardening fun!
I like being both a scientist & an artist when I want to, Plant breeding is very much both!
In much more of a nutshell, it’s basically his way of measuring serendipity – how well a person (or organization) notices and takes advantage of lucky breaks.
I suspect that, on average, every square mile of every ecosystem has something nifty happening genetically within it at any given time. And it’s probably a heck of a lot more common than that. The more we learn, and the more we pay attention, the more we’ll be able to notice when interesting opportunities pop up around us.
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but artistic fun for the Plant Breeder 
Not to froget Epigenetics & Horizontal Gene Flow.