No time to document in detail so I just post a few pics to show where I am at today. To tell you I am there,. Really busy, between different projects, Gardening being one of them.
To start with an overall sight of the main site (2000m2 - 20000square feet)
Edit 1/07: We have had a very rainy winter and spring season, so that I delayed direct seeding to the first heat wave (moderate), so from the 5th to the 7th of June. All cucurbits you see, apart from a few transplanted heat-demanding populations (luffas, snake gourds, momordicas), or seeds I had in low quantity (an excellent strain of zucchinis I keep “pure”, cyclantheras, cukemelons, small amounts of very diverse seeds sent by correspondants, etc.)
So in average all you see is at +23 days post direct sowing.
From left to right : special cukes, amarants and chias, wild peper and sweet pepper crosses from @JesseI, ball head cabbages (covered), pepper and eggplant crosses from jesse, then leeks, carrots just sownon each side, then usual potatoes
Potatoes, corn with onions both from seeds and bulbils , faba beans from different places (notably @polarca , @marcela_v), with (drowned!) corn + to the forefront right: seed grown leeks of different strains from 2023 going to seed, concentrated in a small container (good to maximise crosses)
I would love to get feedback from that selection process I intend to follow with all cucurbits:
first of all my populations are between the f1 and the f3 stage, and I have reintroduced loads of diversity this year. So each is not all 3rd generation or all 2nd generation of crosses. - Bees do the job in here by the way -… That means I still had loads of small packets of seeds on top of my big bags of former years populations, from 100grams to about 2 kilos dry seeds in case of the heavy maximas. The small packets were either from you, or from the seeds I bought from the many different shops listed in our directory of european seed seller (see here for the directory and there for contextualixing). The intent was to gather seeds for good, once and for all, these all coming back crossed in the same jar at the end of this year, so that I will never ever go back to buying seeds anymore… and on top of that will be able to share loads at the international meeting and within our community. Also, as some are at the 3rd generation stage, and following Joseph’s approach I thought I could start selecting a bit heavily. At the end of the day, I have had to balance between will to select (on vigor) and necessity to make sure new genetics get in: so I put them in my patches, but them having dedicated sowing points/holes.
Then after my solanacea transplant marathon (1000 transplants eventually), and different problems with mice and slugs on hot beds in the greenhouse, I was a bit sick of transplants, which on top of that I felt was not the way to go forward with cucurbits… So, even if I did not see anyone in my surroundings starting from direct sowing, I decided to do a nearly 100% direct sowing, which I did, and which is in itself a fair amount of selection pressure + which on the long run will help really growing strong 'localized" plants.
Either in bare soil or with plastic tarps my density setting is not usual: I (at least) double the usually required density to favour crosses which are my first objective at this stage (on average second generation of crosses). It is also better to protect the ground earlier in season and prevent weediness so it may eventually became a population trait. So I simplified to 2 cases: “big ones” (all cucurbitas + gourds): 2 per square meter (2 per 10 square feet), “smaller vines” (all the others, including watermelons, melons, cucumbers): 4 per square meter.
Also I oversowed to start selecting a bit: from 10 to 20 seeds per hole (2 holes per square meter on plastic tarps, so that eventually leaving 1 plant of the big ones/hole and 2 of the small ones per hole. On bare grouns it is similar: I used a rope with marks and densities are about the same).
So the oversowing allows me to select, early in the season on two things:
first on vigor after emergence : I selected last wednesday (so +20 days post direct sowing) leaving double density compared to my objectives (for example 4 watermelons per hole where my density objective is of 2, or 2 maximas per sowing point on bare ground where my density objective is of 1)
secondly on earliness of the first female flower (following an old discussion with @UnicornEmily ): later this week or next (at about +30-35 days from direct sowing) I will cut by 2 my present density: so looking at plants I will look for female flowers, and cull the latest plant regarding that criteria. That I won’t do on my keeper melon and watermelon patches, cause if I want to eat them by Christmas so “mabe” I better not harvest them in June ( )… so I think I will favor apparent vigor once again.
I mostly prefered cutting to pulling off not to damage the selected one’s roots.
Of course for those I have in small numbers (snake gourds and others) I will just let them grow without culling any of them, let them cross.
It took me one day to do the first selection on 700 square meter (7000 square feet), so 1400 holes/sowing points, so I feel it is kind of adapted to a small garden: it is not really time consuming, if you have 20 points of direct sowing it would take you about half an hour per selection phase.
Looks like those are about couple weeks behind mine which should make them ripen fruits late september, and ofcourse, have ripe seeds couple weeks earlier than that. Possibly on average more favourable weather will speed up the process. Well in time in your climate (right?) even if they look small now. Mine start to be 15cm high/wide now.
Which is supposed to be viscosa? I don’t see in the picture and I’m a bit suspicious when what I bought were only peruviana. Would be nice if someone could locate the actual species.
Not much that I would add to your culling criteria. Some studies that I have read about planting densities with watermelon and sweet potatoes showed that there is very little difference in harvest even if planting densities vary greatly. That is ofcourse in suitable climate for those species and ideal management (eg wateting). Your climate is quite ideal for cucurbits, but if you are not able to water sufficiently, you might want to cull a bit more if it looks like sitution with water is becoming critical. Also personally I like to cull right after emergence, but I also might have higher densities. Still I like to select for fast emergence and culling right after the first have emerged is the perfect time to do that. That would be 10 days or earlier after sowing. I also like to make cullings more often as I can’t always decide which to take, but after a few days it might become more clear.
Yes I wanted to direct sow earlier but did only on the 1st of june. We had over 250mm of rain in may, raining nearly everyday so I delayed many things including that. Our temperatures are supposedly higher than yours in summer so yes we will see how it turns. We don’t have frosts until - minimum- the 15th of october so if no hail should be ok for seeds. Last year the first light frost was around the 15th of november. On sides you see transplant of your hand made crosses at F1 stage, peppers, and eggplants. Got a few others in the greenhouse. Do bot hesitate to ask for details at any stage.
Here is the difference berween direct sown f4 (king of the north x faithfullness) and a transplanted f1 (banana x early sensation) the same day (1st of june). All the f1s were originally sown the 17 of april:
Actually I have tried a few species over the years, and kept them well marked, so there cannot be confusion due to me, but yes, some of those supposedly different physalis look very similar. Also, if they can, they could have cross. Same story with ixocarpa and philadelphica : they look the same, behave the same, and have been bred for same uses (sauces)…
Actually I have at least 2 strains of each, apart from the last ones (longifolia and alkekengi). I tried also coztomatl in 2022 and rejected it: not to my taste. Was not found of angulata too so I did not resow those.
“Supposedly” Philadelphica (sown earlier than the others)
So yes those three look the same, as Ixocarpa and Philadelphica.
One of my very dissimilar strains of peruviana (hope some new strains will be earlier cause these can make huge harvest, are juicy and sugary, but very late)
Interesting. As my depth of sowing was not standardised (even if quite even) I prefered waiting a bit to see, also I can’t come many times in there cause it is a lot of work on this surface: now those who wanted to sprout have sprouted, I will not have to get rid of them later. I have left a few holes untouched just to see how it goes.
Regarding density that is interesting. So I will keep on with my original idea, the soil will be covered earlier and I will maximise crosses by that density. I won’t cut vines after that cause everything will be intertwinned. Will just come back for harvest.
In 2022 I have seen that watermelon handles very well droughts and high heat in such conditions (tarp). I harvest 4kilos/m² this summer, on 50m², so my wheelbarrow was full every 3 days from the 10th of august to the 30th! So that I learned how to pick surely mature watermelons! Was crazy, and with no watering whatsoever. To compare in such conditions same very hot year (38-39°C at peak), my highest yield, in a better soil, with a bit more moisture, but in similar conditions (tarp + no watering) was my “big maxima” patch with 3.5kg/m². The only difference this year is the direct sowing: will it benefit the plants with better adapted root system? Or the late sowing will make their root system too small to handle drought when drought and serious heat comes? We’ll see…
It looks like your viscosa is definetely not the right one. Floridana I’m not sure what it looks like, and google isn’t much help, but it does look like general ground cherry like prunoisa or pubescens. Those species on the other hand look so similar that I can’t say which is which, or if there might be some mistake. They are very closely related, but crosses should be worth the effort as they probably are from a different stock.
Angulata did have an unique taste. Can’t say it was all bad and seems to have improved once they have dried up. Not all fruits from last year have dried up though, which would be interesting trait. Didn’t notice that any cracked either, which is a problem with the normal types. Seems to be also heavier cropper. Bad thing is that it’s slow to ripen. I have those just to try and cross it to maybe get some of those traits.
Tomatillos I haven’t even tried to keep track off which is which. They will then be 2 populations in one if they don’t cross or possibly other will be eliminated.
If those seedlings are between bigger plants, you might need to be careful that they don’t get completely outcompeted before they really get going. At this stage I would give them a little water every few days to keep the surface layer moist before their roots can effectively access water deeper down. Onions might be better interplanting strategy for those . I have always felt that onions are wasteful with light with their skinny tube leaves.
It’s actually quite weird that your F1 peppers are ahead of mine quite significantly (couple weeks max maybe), but my eggplants are similarly ahead (although earlier sowing might account most of that). I sowed both 6.4 and transplanted just a couple days earlier. I think peppers might be affected by lack of water, but only annuums. Baccatums are doing better than ever (first time F1s so no comparison). Also eggplants have grown nicely. They have signs of water stress, but have grown dispite that. I’m just about to update on those so you’ll see then how they are doing.
Yes you are right, just checked on a few pages. My supposedly viscosa are not viscosa, not even “pseudo-viscosa”!!! Should be pruinosa or floridana… which look quite identical^^
Then see the difference in those too strains of “pseudo-viscosa” : one is tall, nearly without fruits yer, but with a huge trunk, the other is small, very branchy, with already many fruits maturing!
First on the right second on te left:
Yes I do water those small peppers when watering young carrots just nearby, so everyday.
Also I agree with onions. Here I try bulbils and direct sown onion lines with sweet corn
Not too bad so far: bulbils finishing, direct sown a bit too late with corn growing, but you know… Learning! Onions sown the 16th of march and corn sown the 5th of april… so very late for onions in here, and super early for corn.
Next to it another trial : faba beans sown the 13th of march (also late for here), corn the 5th of april.
Hard to say if that is genetics or something else. I have had both tall and small, but usually different years, all from same seeds before I had any other varieties. tall ones did come when I had them too close, but can’t say if something else might do that. They also seem to be highly affected by how much nutrients there are available.
If they are from same source, maybe it’s not worth making crosses, but if you have others from different sources, then it might be worth the effort. It’s not rocket science. Flowers are small, but with right tools it’s not too hard to emasculate. Crosses also worked with fairly high frequency. Maybe more worth the effort making crosses with the actually other species and maybe later making crosses with those F1s. Better use both species as parant as one way might be more likely to work.
I’m partially going to make just unknown crosses with F1s, especielly with peppers and eggplants that don’t make that many flowers. I can mostly go through and dabble pollen between all flowers. With peppers (those F2/F3/F4) that you also have I went from plant to plant. First dabbed pollen, then collected some more (back of a spoon or something similar could work) and repeated that. Since they are already unstaple, it’s not that necessary to know which are which unless there is something to record. Recording I’m going to do when making crosses with half wild peppers and tomatoes, which usually would have so many fruits that any unknown crosses might get swamped. But this year I’m going to simplify markings and only mark that it’s a cross, or in case of tomatoes, mark that it is been pollinated with pimpinellifolium or cheesmaniea. Possibly date. Only some special cases I’ll use more info.
If those direct seeded peppers get shaded by transplants and remain stunted, you could still use that dabble tactic. Even a little pollen will go a long way.
I think I will go with this exact tactic: just marking crosses, marking that they simply are crosses and that is it. Apart from a few very special ones, on which I will mark pedigree… Crosses first, then seed increase at F1 stage, and then start seriously selecting from f2 stage on.
): later this week or next (at about +30-35 days from direct sowing) I will cut by 2 my present density: so looking at plants I will look for female flowers, and cull the latest plant regarding that criteria. That I won’t do on my keeper melon and watermelon patches, cause if I want to eat them by Christmas so “mabe” I better not harvest them in June ( 
)… so I think I will favor apparent vigor once again.
. I have always felt that onions are wasteful with light with their skinny tube leaves.
