Beginners Guide

Discussion in the thread about suggestions for books, topics like phenology, people asking for advice and so on has got me to wondering. Part of what I’m wondering about is a question I asked somewhere, sometime but never really got an answer to, and that is who is the target audience? Farmers, big and small? Back yard gardeners? Seed savers? People with a house plant? People who have never had plant or planted a seed?

I think there is a mix of the above and even with those who may have actually planted a seed before there is a lot of inexperience and a bit of the blind leading the blind. There may be, contrary to what I used to think, people who don’t know much of anything at all. I don’t write this with any intent of being critical or derogatory, but accepting what I believe to be factual.

Now there are uncountable numbers of bloggers, youtubers and garden writers some of whom offer good information and some of whom don’t. So, how is the person who knows basically nothing but wants too, going to sort their way through it all?

It reminds me a little of when I went back to college in the late 1990s to learn about computers. I didn’t know anything; I mean nothing at all. What the hell, is clicking? Is it going to explode if I click left when I should have clicked right? O’ and by the way, how do you turn it on?

Some years later when I found myself as part time faculty at that same college, I got called to the department head’s office one day to explain why my students consistently scored higher on tests and did better in the next level classes. I had observed other instructors, some of whom I had studied under a few years earlier and I knew the answer right off.

It was because those instructors, with higher level degrees and much more experience commonly were more concerned with demonstrating their superior knowledge than they were about teaching and failed completely to grasp the fact it the student already had the knowledge they wouldn’t have been taking the class. Basically, I had not forgotten being afraid the mouse might explode if I touched it wrong, and they had.

Now I don’t remember a time of being afraid a seed might explode because I’ve been planting them since before I could read, and I could read before I started school. Still, I have retained the ability to understand that a student comes to a class to learn what they don’t already know. They aren’t dumb or lazy, they just don’t know.

So, in the set “target audience” how many are in the subset, “know pretty much nothing”? Is there a need for a Beginners Guide, emphasis on Beginners?

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I’m reluctant in my online posts to teach gardening for beginners. For me personally, I try to stay focused on the uniqueness of my philosophy: genetic diversity and promiscuous pollination.

I have previously focused on small scale growers that already save seeds.

I’m expanding that to try to capture the imaginations of small scale market growers, and current gardeners who are not seed savers.

I know of one mega-scale farmer who grows only landraces. Would be nice to know more of them.

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Very good questions and insights. I believe anyone with a desire to ‘try’ whether they have experience or not is who we are looking for. As you have identified, teaching beginners is often followed with higher success because they don’t have to relearn so much.

For myself I have gardened for my lifetime. Not farming just a family garden. I was taught seed saving is dangerous as you can accidentally cross things you shouldn’t. And I was taught it’s easier to just buy seeds. I saved seeds anyway. Just easy ones like corn, beans, and squash. The corn always made me nervous, so I usually bought new seed anyway.
When I read “Landrace Gardening” my whole paradigm shifted. But it was still hard to let go of a few ideas I had about seeds.

It was my good fortune and blessing to live so close to @Joseph_Lofthouse and partake of his willingness to mentor me. I had a desire that surpassed old ideas.

I think a book to help beginners is vital. One reason Joseph and I are working together to give details. Our book may be a bit beyond beginners only. We are aiming to help longtime gardeners/farmers make the shift as well.

Thank you for your thoughtfulness and putting into words the questions we all need to consider as we reach out and market our “GoingToSeed.org” website/community and the assistance available.

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I also think it’s an excellent question and line of exploration.

To riff on Joseph’s point, I’ve intuitively felt that the focus on landrace gardening’s unique value proposition reflected a unix-like philosophy.

Landrace gardening appears to me to be a module for how to breed great plants. Within that scope it has some unique and important components to the definition of “great”.

It is not a module for managing growing conditions or even spatially organizing a garden, though it seems to be not without some natural inclinations on these matters.

It seems to me this module for breeding great plants can be used alongside a regenerative agriculture module, a permaculture module, or even a conventional agricultural module, despite what I’m tempted to call spiritual incompatibility with the latter.

I consider myself a beginning gardener, but based on your writing I think by “beginner” you mean a gardner who doesn’t yet have sufficient experience and wisdom to distinguish useful information from useless or counter-productive information.

I think providing gardening information for beginners that is suffused by the principles of landrace gardening could be extremely valuable. Not “landrace gardening for beginners”, but “gardening for beginners” congruent with the principles and practices of landrace gardening. In essence, information on gardening modules that “play nice” with the module for breeding great plants.

And written or taught by someone who still remembers not knowing that onions grow in the ground.

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I was just kind of rambling about if I was to write a book, not suggesting what someone else should write. That’s why I put it in a new topic. And yes, it would be for beginning gardeners, no landraces, no wofaties, hugelkulturs, milpas, permacultures, regenerations or world saving and not really concurrent with anything. Just what plants need to grow and how to get started doing it. It would likely cover some specific crops, the ones most popular with home gardeners like tomatoes, green beans and sweet corn and probably a few others. It would be short maybe fifty to a hundred pages tops, with lots of pictures and hopefully would leave the reader with confidence they really could grow a tomato or even just a house plant and leave lots of questions, to be addressed in follow up books.

The first follow up would probably be about seed saving and introduce the different ways plants are pollinated and how to collect and store seeds. It would likely introduce the notion that home saved seeds could be superior in a number of ways and sneak in the idea that the world won’t end if your Golden Bantam and Silver Queen sweet corns fool around in the back seat a bit.

Then of course there would have to be one about soil, fertilization, composting and so on. And a whole string of other topics.

I’m very fond of the old War and Victory Garden campaigns (except for the parts about chemicals) and have downloaded almost all of the literature and artwork published back then, from the Library of Congress. There is some really good info and advice there, it just needs dusted off a bit and repurposed. I can see a generous dose of it, mixed in and modernized a bit, minus the chemicals. I like those publications because they are very much in line with my way of thinking, that every single individual person that can, should, grow at least some of their own food. Some of the oldest stuff is most interesting to me, especially regarding storage, because it was before a lot of people had freezers or even electricity.

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I have been thinking about similar things, especially conserning who to share seeds with. It’s easy to share staple varieties and hopefully it will encourage people to explore more, first seed saving and then maybe more experimental stuff. But I’m more selective in sharing genetically diverse seeds at this point. If people don’t save seeds or pamper their plants, then they are more of that forementioned gategory. There are still lot’s people to share diverse seeds with that have enough enthusiasm and drive. Skills can be learned if person has those. Some facebook groups that I’m in have people who have been gardening for decades that I would consider to still to be beginners. They have learnt something long time ago and take it to their graves. I think ultimate goal for me would be to have something that grows well here and being able to grow so much that there would be enough to sell (as market gardener and seeds as well) and just flood people with genetically diverse seeds. Some will find fertile soil.

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As a beginner gardener, I concur. The plethora of resources out there for general gardening isn’t always helpful for those of us wanting to also landrace. Most general advice is “you must do it this way,” while most landrace advice is “do whatever you feel like,” and I often don’t have enough experience to know a reasonable balance between the two. Therefore, when I perform a given gardening action, I don’t currently know what failure rates I should expect.

Having expected failure rates is important because it’s the basis for knowing how to gauge where you’ve already been and how to move forward. Failure rates meeting expectations = good, keep going. Failure rates not meeting expectations = something’s not right, check your notes. Unknown failure rates = unknown progress, shooting in the dark, what am I even doing?

Currently, there is little guidance suggesting realistic feasibility of a given landrace goal.

Joseph Lofthouse had a chart that showed the ease of landracing crops based mostly on their cross-pollination rates. Perhaps we also need (from anyone in the community, or as a group) a chart showing the ease of common landrace goals. For instance, season-shifting, flavor, physical attributes, cold hardiness, pH tolerance, etc. It could be individualized for specific crops, or groups of crops, or organized by the landrace goal; I imagine it’s a lot of information for a single chart.

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My thinking is that the best skill for beginners to focus on right away is seed saving. (I could be biased, given that that’s where I have chosen to put most of my earliest efforts. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: )

Happily, practicing seed saving can be really easy for beginners! In summer and fall, you can look at wild plants in your ecosystem and practice saving dry seeds from them. Bonus points if it’s a plant you like and want to plant somewhere, but it’s fine if you’re just doing it to learn how.

Practicing wet processing is easy, too. If you ever buy fruits to eat, just practice saving seeds out of those.

Very low barrier to entry, very low cost of failure, and the skill enables a very high potential reward: being ready to save seeds from your garden crops. It’s a great activity for a beginner to work on gaining skills in.

Then you have to learn how to select the best plants to save seeds from. :wink: But that’ll come with experience, as you figure out what you, personally, value most in your crops.

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Failure is only way to learn so don’t worry about that. I think failure means always that something went wrong. But it might be that you were expecting some to fail for example sowing too early or you made some mistake. Pay attention to conditions or what you have done and over time you will learn what to do and what to avoid. Don’t take easy way and blame weather or lack of fertilizers. Those are factors, but usually not main factor. I mean you gotta live with your weather so it can’t be the main reason, right? Either you haven’t adjusted to your weather or plants haven’t. Try different times to get some idea what is safe time for your area. After that you can start to explore more. Maybe better start with heirlooms, then you have couple years to trial before you have genetetically varied seeds with those. Although it’s not landracing or similar climate to yours, I could still recommend Charles Dowding in youtube. There are some overlaps with your season too. The best thing is that I don’t think anything he talks about is factually wrong. Style is different and you can just ignore what doesn’t feel like your style (for example removing lower leaves in brassicas). There are couple videos specifically for trouble shooting problems. There are many youtubers that have good content, but often with couple myths here and there.

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Could you invite that mega-grower to the monthly podcast? That would be really interesting.

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Are you still thinking about writing a Beginner’s Guide to gardening book? I’ve been gardening for 5 years but still feel like a beginner and have gotten increasingly frustrated with the high cost of some of the gardening methods I’m using, and wondered how to do it without some of them (ie potting soil, plastic seed trays/plant containers, etc) but don’t really know any other way to do gardening. I’ve seen some of your posts here and have definitely been interested in learning more about your approach to gardening in genera

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I would be interested to know how many beginners in dry climates have had their crops completely dry out when attempting the Charles Dowding method. Speaking from experience.

Which part of his method? Transplanting pretty much everything, no-dig or something else? Transplanting if you have lack of water can certainly be a problem, but no-dig on the other hand works even better in a dry climate. Native americans did something similar successfully even in dry climate for thousands of years so it can’t be that bad for dry climate. Ofcourse you can’t copy paste everything someone else does in a completely different climate. That doesn’t mean it can’t be useful. Just have to apply it to your climate. That unfortunately takes experience which only comes through making mistakes. What I have noticed over the years is that beginners, and maybe even more experienced gardeners, try to find simple outside explanations why something didn’t work when most of the time when most of the time it’s gardener who is at fault. Either directly or indirectly by not taking into consideration conditions. Or possible conditions as there are year to year fluctuation in weather and you can’t expect to do exactly the same every year. Everyone makes mistakes. You just have to learn from them and move on.

The cardboard and having the edges of the cardboard uncovered. It wicks away moisture and doesn’t decompose quickly.

That’s not really Charles Dowding method, but general way of starting no-dig bed. I do not know that he advices leaving the cardboard visible and if he leaves them in his how to videos it’s because he is doing a demonstration. If you look at his videos you can see that he has also pathways that eventually cover the cardboard from pretty much everywhere. Also he recommends starting them during his autumn/winter. Like I said, not everything transfers directly, but might need more consideration to local climate. If you don’t have enough percipitation even during winter, then you might need to water newly made beds. The princible still works. I mean, you probably wouldn’t plant exactly at the same time as someone in the UK, but you could still use his planting methods. Why would you expect making a no-dig bed work exactly same way in your climate as in his? Usually you’d need to make some adjustments compared to people in different climates.

Because I was a beginner.

Yes, well you can’t blame him for not explaining all possible scenarios in different climates, now can you? As a beginner you are bound to make mistakes and you learn from them. No big deal. It’s the same no matter the topic.

Experience is one of the best teachers and it sounds like you have already figured out that cardboard exposed to air and sun will wick water out of the ground rather than conserve it. I don’t like using cardboard for a number of reasons but won’t go into than now.

Water can’t be wicked out of the ground though, if water isn’t there in the first place. Water is a fundamental necessity of all life on earth; nothing will live without it. From what I understand about the climate of Cash Valley, water during summer is naturally in short supply. Mulch can help conserve water; shade can help conserve water, but it can’t be conserved if it isn’t there to begin with. Looking at satellite images of the area, you can see the natural conditions outside the towns are rather bare and brown with small beautifully green areas where regular irrigation is applied in and near the towns. If you have access to that irrigation water, you can compensate simply by turning on the flow on a regular schedule.

Water is fundamental, that is all there is too it. No common garden plants will grow without it. Tomatoes, beans and so on cannot be adapted, selected or landraced to grow without water, nothing other than native plants can. Cactus where the plant itself stores water or things that go dormant in summer or things that grow mostly in winter.

Cities and agriculture can only exist in deserts because of water being collected from melting snowpack or channeled in from a river someplace else. If you want to grow a vegetable garden the first thing is probably to scale it to the level where you are able to add water. One tomato plant with adequate water will likely produce more tomatoes than a hundred of them frying in the sun.

So, don’t plant more than your water supply and ability to apply it allows. Learn ways to conserve water and maximize its use like mulch and shade. Some species of plants handle lack of water a bit better than others and there is some variability on that within a single species and it’s good to look for save seed from those things, but again. Nothing will live without water, and it never will. That was cut in stone, a long time ago.

I’m sorry, emei–it’s so disheartening to follow a “proven” method that clearly works for many people, but failed for you. I’ve been gardening for 15 years or so, but when I tried switching to a Charles Dowding deep compost method four years ago it was a disaster and I (temporarily) ruined my garden–and I wasn’t a beginner–so I can commiserate.

In my case, the bulk compost I purchased was poor. Not my fault–i purchased it from where everyone purchases their compost, and multiple friends had used it happily. Just not putting 6" of it down. It was hydrophobic, salty, alkaline, and contained toxic amounts of potassium, phosphorus, calcium, several other micronutrients, and was nearly devoid of nitrogen. I would deeply water my beds and they’d be dried out and the plants wilting four hours later. Nothing would grow without fertilizer, and the plants were stunted and sickly. I produced very, very little food that year and the following year.

It was a redemptive disaster, though, because it’s pushed me to dive deeper, educate myself beyond the university of homesteader YouTube channels, and learn how to better manage my soil. And it’s the path that led me here. My garden has improved enormously over the past two years. The biggest levers were mulching my beds (straw and/or leaf mulch) so the soil isn’t exposed, and I saw a huge difference in fertility this spring after doing a fall application of Revenant Charge (a soil biology stimulant). I’m aiming to get away from using products, but it’s been a worthwhile step for me on the journey.

We’re all on our own individual journeys, working with different soils, different climates, different resources, different pests. Don’t be discouraged. Some attempts fail. Dive deep and start making guesses at what your particular plot of land needs to move forward from here.

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Oof. I was so disappointed when finding out that people have to water their vegetables even in a place like Maine… and that folks “dry farm” with over 50 inches of rain a year… yep I guess…