Interspecies squash hybrids

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That makes me ecstatic that she will make her way out into the World! Thank you friend. Beyond thrilling. I will put together all the info today and and post it on this reply.

It really is. Phenomenal to see how community helped to solve that dilemma in a real World scenario. Also why I feel getting the message of Landrace Gardening out to homegrowers who can’t grow 25 of the same plant is so awesome. Seed saving and growing for all!

Yes for sure! I met the stewards of the library last week. It only came to be within the year and it’s totally in the process of growing. I took a bunch of flower seed in and went to the seed swap. First one in town in many years! So fun!!!

I spoke with them and they were excited to learn more about Landrace Gardening. Especially one who spoke to me about “chaos gardening” native pollinator plants in her front yard. Ummm…Right on!

I told her I had alot of vegetable seed I could share but that I practiced Landrace Gardening and asked if she would like to dedicate a space in the seed library for a section. She said it’s something she’d like to do. Definitely interested. I told her about the course and that I could drop off more info and some of my seed for the section.

This is phenomenal. I feel it is an extremely helpful tool to illustrate the program. Thank you for this resource.

Thanks again for everything friend

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Thank you so much for all your help and for welcoming the girls into your garden! Sending them on their way now. I hope this helps to explain the growing conditions and a little bit of the background. Wow. Thanks so much.

The Beginning of the White Jarrahdale, Her Maybe Probable Parents, and Her Sisters

Probable Parents

2021 - I planted seed from the original stock of Jarrahdale in my home garden. Plants yielded fruit and I saved seeds
2021- While camping in Eastern Tennessee we visited an Amish farmers market. After roasting the spaghetti squash I insisted we had to get more to take home. It was the absolute sweetest squash I had ever sampled. There was one left when we returned. Although the young man didn’t know the name of the specific variety he reassured me that they only grew open pollinated varieties. I was still pretty hung up on names at that point and hadn’t decided if I should save the seed.

22- I roasted and enjoyed the spaghetti squash in the beginning of the year. It was still as delicious after being stored at room temperature on the table for a couple months. That was when I committed to try and grow it out.
22- I scattered saved seeds from 2021 season of Jarrahdale on the North side of the property
22- I scattered saved seeds from the Spaghetti Squash on the South side
I mean…They aren’t supposed to readily cross right?
22 - It was this same year in the Fall that a white pumpkin appeared. It was around the typical Jarrahdale size, a little under ten pounds. Smelled wonderful but I wasn’t able to sample it because something else had been enjoying it! I kept the seeds because I was intrigued by the variance in color.

I feel it’s also noteworthy to share that I pulled my pumpkin and squash early that year due to permanent wilt. Flipping Cucumber Beetles. Everything was fine then… Well you garden friends know how that tale goes! Jarrahdale had grown to maturity and I was able to save seed from them. Besides the white I also saw variation leaning toward green and saved them as well. The Spaghetti Squash was flowering and fruiting but hadn’t quite reached maturity.

2023 -The Year of Extreme Drought

The Patch Overall

In June of last year I was pretty bummed. Just standing by and watching the soil crack was not doing it for me. I took a handful of the Blue, White, and Green Jarrahdale seed, mixed it with a handful of popcorn, and cast it into a shaded area. I then took a broom and swept them into the cracks. I was hoping they would be far enough down to find water. They did!

A ton of vines and blooms. They took over the entire yard and then some. No disease problems or damage from insects even though they were present in the area. Some wilted a couple times in the intense heat but I didn’t water and they didn’t show any permanent damage. They saw a lot of traffic. A groundhog, a skunk, and a possum were regulars. Alot got eaten and not all the pumpkins made it. The seed I’m sending in to share were from the absolute best.

Around the middle of October we had our first frost and I harvested all the fruit. Vines were still in stellar shape and producing blooms. There were around 20 mature pumpkins in total. They sat on my porch for awhile but I had to get them indoors. (Skunk on the porch? Enough said!) I ate a few. They were really good but one person can only eat so much pumpkin at once. I don’t have a ton of indoor space either so I gave all but the three pictured to my nephew and the neighbor kids to carve and enjoy. These three had been just sitting on the table in the light at room temperature since then. Fabulous storage potential even without ideal circumstances.

It wasn’t until a couple weeks ago when I processed the White one that I begin to really look at them and record the noticeable variations. I knew they were pretty phenomenal but I hadn’t really reflected on it or quite understood why until that point.

My personal notes on the seed stock from this current season that could be helpful -

Blue “true to type” Jarrahdale - Harvested 2023
9 pounds - flavor,shape, and size as “true to type” Blue Jarrahdale

Innards - Extremely orange and sweet. Sweet like a sweet potato but in a pumpkin way. More pumpkin scent than any other type of pumpkin I have ever smelled. Flesh not slimy and still firm.
I used this Blue Jarrahdale to turn sugar into a Pumpkin sugar. Pumpkin flavor and scent held up well and really shined through.

Lighter Green with Beige Mottling - Harvested 2023
9 pounds - same flavor,shape, and size as “true to type” Blue Jarrahdale with the variation expressed only in the outer skin.

Innards - Extremely orange and sweet. Sweet like a sweet potato but in a pumpkin way. More pumpkin scent than any other type of pumpkin I have ever smelled. Flesh not slimy and still firm.
I ate it roasted plain and made a couple whipped pumpkin pies from it.

White Jarrahdale - Harvested 2023
15.5 pounds - Same shape as traditional Jarrahdale. Way bigger. Skin is white with slight blue and beige streaks in a few places. Stem is more squared than others and slightly ribbed. Blossom end notably way smaller.

Innards - Extremely sweet but a bit more squash like. Orange in the middle with a slight yellowing towards outside. Kind of similar to a how the colors in a tie dye present. Flesh not slimy and still firm.
I ate this one roasted plain as well. It was super sweet and perfect as is. So good! I dehydrated the rest and am still enjoying it.

Why do I feel this could be a viable interspecies hybrid?

Color Variation of fruit
The stem on the white was noticeably more squared and ribbed
Definite smaller blossom end on the big white
Seeds are a bit bigger than the original and flatter. I also feel the margin is accentuated more with a possible slight color difference. Additionally the seed is flared at the edges especially in the seed from the big white one

This is the resource I turned to when attempting to decipher if there was genetic variation present

Although I did recognize the variation and place them in my garden I did not intentionally breed this beauty. I wouldn’t have valued them in the way they were intended without the help from you all. I am beyond grateful to Joseph for sharing his knowledge and all of you that make this community possible. Phenomenal to know they can possibly find homes with good folks who also see their potential. Maybe someday a family can grow them and feed the babies all winter long without worry. Or the chickens? Or themselves? So delicious and versatile. Pretty exciting.

A beautiful decorative pumpkin you can eat
Flavor is superb
Outrageously long storage potential
Vigorous growth habit thriving in both horizontal and vertical situations
Probable resistance to -
Drought
Powdery Mildew
Permanent Wilt
Wild Animals
Cucumber Beetles and Squash Bugs

That is an absolute complete history to the best of my knowledge of their beginnings. I hope I have “talked them up” in appropriate length and fashion. I feel they could be extremely valuable in the return towards self sufficiency for the home gardener. I hope they do indeed contain a combination of genetics that continue to shine through! Thanks in advance to all who can spare a little space and give her a chance to thrive. Thank you all for all you do!

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Personally I’d try it whether it’s an interspecies hybrid or not. What a great pumpkin!

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@BohemianHerbology Just for completeness of the story, were there other squash varieties growing near your Jarrahdale in 2021? Just wondering if some crossing may have occurred that year. In any case, I agree with @H.B . This is a squash I would love to have in my garden.

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@H.B @DebbieA I’m so glad you all are willing to check her out. I sent 3/4 of it out your way and am going to try to fit in a small area here again this year. If it weren’t for you all the seed would be sitting in a jar. Thanks so much for facilitating the exchange.

The original planting of the Jarrahdale Squash in 2021 was in the back northeast corner of my property. I didn’t isolate it. It was kind of one of the things I knew it would be too much for me to even try. All that could be significant because I live in a mobile home park. The back corner is within twenty feet of two neighbors who also garden. Forty or so till another one and there are a couple more across the street. I’m not sure how to answer friend.

I didn’t plant anything by it and I just mention that in the interest of full disclosure. Good news is that they are all awesome and wouldn’t plant anything icky. Additionally I have Carpenter Bees and tons of other pollinators . Hope that helps but probably not. Just keeps adding to the mystery! I concur with you all. Whatever it is I dig it. She’s a hardworking beauty and has earned her keep with me.

I suppose I should also mention I am freely giving this seed to the community to distribute. I don’t want anything in return. Happy growing to you all. I hope it helps a few folks somewhere down the line.

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Not an interspecies hybrid, because the cross would have occurred in this generation, and you wouldn’t know until the 2023 growing season.

Pepo/Maxima crosses are exceedingly difficult and unusual. They have fertility issues, and even if fruits form in the first generation, production of seeds is very rare, and the vast majority of seeds don’t germinate.

Interspecies crosses tend to have traits mid-way between the parent species. The photos in this thread look like pure maxima.

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Right on. Thank you. Curiosity appeased! Thank you once again for your continued efforts and sharing your knowledge once again. Sincerely appreciated!

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Interspecies hybrid or not, Julia @BohemianHerbology is very generously sharing her seeds with the community. If you would like to plant these beauties during the 2024 growing season, pm me with your address. Let me know which of the following you would like to receive:

  1. Spaghetti squash 2021
  2. Blue true-to-type Jarrahdale 2022
  3. Blue true-to-type Jarrahdale 2023
  4. Light green w/ beige mottling Jarrahdale 2023
  5. White Jarrahdale 2023

Thanks for increasing diversity in your gardens!

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Can we please discuss how to identify potential interspecies crosses? I could use some tips, having no personal experience.

Given that these crosses are very rare events, would most or all of the seeds in the resulting fruit be undeveloped (weak or empty hull)? Would this be a way of identifying a natural interspecies cross?

A friend gave me a maxima squash from her garden last fall. I cut it open in January and was surprised that there were only a few seeds. They all seemed either hollow or less full than a normal squash seed (although the hull feels strong). Here’s a photo:

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Could these seeds be the result of an interspecies cross?

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^^From what I’ve learned primarily from this forum, this is the way to go. There also seems to be a tendency for some if not most interspecific F1s to be less fertile than either parent.

I also have very limited experience. I made a number of maxipep crosses last season, at least one of which was successful and produced fruit. When apparently ripe the fruit had no seed at all. Same for another manual pollination I suspect was successful. Other fruits from the same plant which were pollinated (before routinely and vigilantly removing the male flowers) had seeds.

Very few squash plants survived to flower last season and I am confident that emasculating the pepos was a sufficient pollination control.

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They claim this is a stabilized interspecies cross. I can’t verify but it is interesting and maybe useful?

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Michael made 2 or 3 of the interspecies hybrids which are available commercially. They used the embryo rescue technique on the F1 hybrids.

Fruits can have few, or immature seeds for genetic or environmental reasons. Few seeds in a fruit can be a clue that it’s an interspecies hybrid. Other clues would be things like a maxima-looking squash having mottled leaves, or a moschata-looking squash having a round peduncle.

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I’m only just getting into growing squash in substantial quantities as I’d never enjoyed eating it much until last year (blame grocery stores). I’m still figuring out whether I want to take advantage of interspecific incompatibility or encourage things to mix.

The squash that changed my mind about squash was a maxima (Gete-Okosomin) I grew last year. I don’t think I had grown maxima before. Most of my squash planting this year is focused on maxima. I believe the flavour and texture I like is mostly found in maxima.

However, while my climate and growing conditions are good for squash generally, we do get vine borers. They didnt affect last year’s plants but they’ve wiped out my zucchini bushes every 2-3 years. Zucchini is fast enough that I just start a second crop under lights a month later than my first, and transplant in if the first zukes get wiped out. I think I’ll cry if my entire maxima crop gets wiped out by borers, though. We have a long enough season for ONE planting of maxima.

While I havent found any moschata I love to eat as much, I dont hate most butternut, and I can imagine breeding moschata into maxima might be great for borer resistance without negatively impacting taste. I am growing Lodi and Honeynut this year alongside my maxima - not hand pollinating but if crosses happen they happen. If I see vine borer pressure or turn out to really like the Lodi squash, I might consider adding more moschata and moschata-maxima crosses to collection next year.

I think I might be that difficult person who wants different interspecific mixes separated from each other - I am interested in maximas and maxima-moschata crosses, but would like pepo out of my winter squash breeding. I dont enjoy eating pepo winter squashes in general, and they would aggravate my vine borer concerns.

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I am in the same boat with respect to good squash growing climate and squash vine borer problem but with a slightly different focus. I am down to the two last Maxima plants this season which will be lost in a sea of Cushaw. I planted 142 Cushaw seeds and have 40 up at the moment which is what I expected for treated seed. My Moschata mixes are also up but I had less seed supply on hand than Cushaw. Of course all my Moschata seed on hand went out into the garden and while not all germinated they had much higher rate of germination than the Cushaw seed supply. My goal is to create new a new Cushaw seed supply full of Endophytes and no treatments. If I succeed in this endeavor this season and the squash vine borer and squash bugs don’t decimate the patches I can send the resulting seeds in to @DebbieA and then work next grow seasons on similar seed expansion for the other Cushaw varieties to get a mix of Cucurbita argyrosperma available for GTS to put on offer. So my focus would be Moschata and Cushaw and likely dropping Maxima and having already dropped Pepo.

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Thank you and @LeeAngold for your posts. You both have addressed an issue of mine as well. That is, when/how does one decide to give up on a particular species? I seem to have better luck with maximas than moschatas. Last year I had 1 moschata plant that produced 1 small fruit. I saved the seeds but it’s not very encouraging. I purchased maxima x moschata seeds to try this year and will see how they do. I will also try cushaws this year. If maximas, pepos and cushaws grow well in my garden, do I really need moschatas, too?

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I’m maybe not the person to ask, as I am guilty of stubbornly insisting on growing various things that are generally considered impossible in my climate. Often unsuccessfully, year after year but breakthroughs are amazing and do happen.

If there’s something useful to you or appealing about moschata squashes that you can’t find in other species (be it something like hard stems for vine borer resistance, or a specific flavour profile) and space isnt sharply limited then I would keep experimenting with moschata or moschata crosses. If you can grow all the other squashes well in your climate, surely a moschata or moschata cross exists or can be adapted to grow reasonably well too.

If your other squash fulfills all your squash wants, or space is a major constraint and maximizing production is a priority, then maybe its time to drop the moschata. If I didnt have vine borer concerns I’d likely be happy to just grow maxima forever. Hell, at that point I’d be tempted to just grow the delicious Gete-okosomin that did so well in my garden last year.

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Thanks for the reminder about not giving up too quickly. Asking nature to figure out which plants will grow well in our space definitely takes time. So I’ll have another go at the moschata while trying the other things as well. Putting a few more seeds into the ground isn’t a big investment of time, and you’re right, the rewards can be great!

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Does anyone else want to join me in trying to guess whether two of the C. argyrosperma listings at Native Seed Search are crosses with C. maxima? I’m intrigued.

So far this season, some cushaws with maxima ancestry are doing well compared to most others, so I’m becoming more attuned to that cross when reading about squash.

Both of these cushaws from Native Seed Search have peduncles which suggest maxima to me. Only the second, papalote ranch cushaw, has a photo of the interior. The flesh color and the thickness of the seed suggests some maxima.

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That would not be a bad guess, but to what degree they currently are is another matter. Maxima heritage might diminish very fast with selection or single traits might come from “contamination” by spreading through a population and weakening while doing so. Maybe just try and see. To me it’s not as important if some variety will do well straight away, but through crosses if they make that far.