Hi again everyone. I thought I’d start a new thread since this is a specific subtopic of apple breeding. I’m allergic to raw apples. I can eat them cooked, but raw they make my mouth itchy, tingly, and at the worst, make my throat swell up. Apparently it’s a co-allergy with birch pollen allergy, so when it’s high birch pollen season my raw apple allergy is worse. I’m also allergic to raw carrots. My almost 5 year old loves raw apples and I would like to be able to enjoy crunching into some with her. I stumbled on a video of Eckart Brandt, an apple farmer of ancient varietals in Germany https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCCH44HRK8c and I was inspired to try to find some old apples to try. Nowhere near me that I could find was selling ancient varietals of apples for me to taste and see if I was allergic. So I’m going to grow my own and breed some new ones from the ancient types. This paper from 2018 was what I read after seeing Eckart talk about ancient varietals not being a problem for people allergic to raw apples: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5789330/
I just got a shipment from Trees of Antiquity and the bare root trees I got look really good. I got Belle de Boskoop (1856 Holland), Ananas Reinette (1500’s France), and White Pearmain (1200’s England) – all three are on MM 111 semi dwarf rootstock. I’m expecting more trees from Cummins next month, namely Ashmead’s Kernel and yes it’s very trendy right now haha (1700’s England) on G.210 semi dwarf, Freiherr von Berlepsch which I think is the same as Berlepsch mentioned in the paper as being high phenolic acids (1880’s Germany, Ananas Reinette x Ribston Pippin) on G.969 semi dwarf, Orleans Reinette (1700’s France) on G.969 semi dwarf, Virginia Crab as a pollinator and cider apple (1700’s Virginia USA) on G.41 dwarf, and some more G.41 dwarfing rootstock for some grafting. I ordered some scions from Steven Edholm at Skillcult that might not have Cox’s Orange Pippin in their parentage (see why below) Wickson, BITE ME!, and Sugarwood, and I’m trying to find some other ancient apple scions for this year (Lost Apple Project unfortunately is done with orders already this year).
I’m converting my front yard to an apple tree centric food forest test garden for ancient varietals to grow and breed some apples I can eat raw. If anyone else who is allergic to raw apples or has family or friends allergic to raw apples wants to collaborate, I’m game. If you have ancient apple tree varietals or apples that haven’t triggered an allergic reaction in someone that is usually allergic, I would love scions or seeds, I can pay postage or trade whatever you like in exchange (I make apple butter, home grown hot pepper flakes, etc.). I’m in East Tennesee in Knoxville, USA in zone 7b.
The thoughts on rootstock perhaps affecting the phenolic acid content is definitely a good theory to test as well. I haven’t been able to taste any ancient varietals yet but I’m excited to try them. A friend said there’s a rural apple festival close to Johnson City (I’m in Knoxville) and I will try to visit an orchard or two in advance to make some apple grower contacts.
I planted up Ananas Reinette, White Permain, and Belle de Boskoop today in big pots. I’ll be tarping my front lawn completely to kill the grass and the bermuda grass for the next 4-6 months and then plant these apple trees in the fall.
Nope not yet but I would be down to try. Are you allergic to raw apples and tried other malus species? Do you have any seeds or scions for other malus species?
I’m not allergic, no, I was just wondering what specifically you were allergic to and whether it was common to all Malus pomes. It should be relatively easy to try and find other Malus species. I have Malus bacatta in my garden. It might be worth trying to grow apple from seed if you think the rootstock is giving you issues.
I don’t think it’s the rootstock, but it was an idea from someone else. I think it’s a lack of phenolic acid in most modern apples because of a breeding parentage bottleneck. That’s why I’m growing and tasting ancient apples and eventually breeding them.
Nope, I’m not allergic to any apples that are brewed (like in hard cider), pasteurized (heated enough), fermented, baked, etc. I’m just allergic to raw apples, and my main premise here, probably just raw modern apples.
This honeycrisp is on dwarfing rootstock of some sort. I planted it two years ago and it has yet to bloom. It looks like it might finally bloom this year. I planted a Gala over the fence at my neighbors’ place as its bloom partner. It’s coplanted with a goumi berry bush as a nitrogen fixer and to encourage it to grow faster. It also has some non invasive comfrey at the base.
Hi, glad I could provide some material of interest to you.
Why do you think that Cox is the culprit when reports on cox are conflicted, but the reports on Golden and Red Delicious show that nobody reported positive on them? The big ancestors on modern apple breeding are
mcintosh
golden delicious
red delicious
cox orange
james grieve
have I forgotten one (wasn’t there six…?)
So I feel that Golden and Red Delicious are a more like culprit…
Maybe I am biased because I actually like cox, while I am neutral to Golden and actively dislike Red Delicious…
Have you had success grafting on a dormant tree this early (you don’t have bud swell yet, it seems)? I am planning to start grafting when the buds crack open, but if you have a technique that works even prior to bud swell, please let me know, would love to expand my grafting window.
I’m not sure if the cox orange pippin is the culprit, to be determined haha. I am hoping it’s a different crappy apple parent as the bottleneck too.
I don’t know if it’s too early to graft, it’s warm here in east tennessee and sap is flowing. Some peaches and cherries and the dreaded bradford pears are starting to bloom. Maybe I grafted these apple scions too early, hopefully not.
Haters gonna hate. I love bradford pears. My neighbor has her driveway lined with it, pretty white flowers. The birds eat the berries, come sit on the fence of my garden, poop out the seeds, so now I have a couple of bradford pears growing along my fence line. Can’t wait to graft some edible pears on these maintenance-free rootstocks.
I’ve heard honeycrisp described as “precocious” and i can atest that after just one year in the ground they started blooming and grew a couple apples each. They looked like the Charlie Brown Christmas tree with the ornaments about to bend it to the ground, it was so small. Our mcintosh being in the ground 3 extra years and 3 times as big has yet to show a single flower.
Yeah the issue for me is when the bradford crosses with a different pear and spreads invasively choking out native plants, which is super problematic here in east tennessee. Also we had two bradfords in our front yard (already here when we bought the house) that fell over in a wind storm and one super damaged my car. And despite us paying to have the stumps removed, they KEEP sending up shoots two years later, probably from tiny bits of root. So yeah if you have some that are nicely placed that you can chop and use as rootstock for edible pears, that’s nice, a la David the Good, but I don’t. lol. I’m tarping my front yard and converting it into an apple centric food forest system so I would like the bradford root shoots to stop.
