No, I haven’t. We have the troublesome situation of needing to moderate both heat and cold for some plants (tea, mostly)that I want to grow.
Others I just have to make sure that once it gets cold they stay cold instead of waking up during the January thaw(a lot of fruiting plants and stuff from northeast Asia.)
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I’ve got a few plants I want to grow that can’t stand temperatures above 85 degrees or below 32. I finally figured out that I should grow them through the winter in my greenhouse. 
I can’t do much about the summer heat, but I can protect them from cold!
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I noticed you mentioned dwarf mallow. I am very interested in working with this plant. There were a few growing wild on my property when I moved here to South Central Montana. Over the years I have been encouraging them and casually spreading them just by pulling some up that have seed pods and spreading them as mulch. There are now quite a lot and I’m very happy about that. They are extremely tolerant of wide variations in growing conditions and taste good even in the heat of summer. I eat the leaves but my favorite are the young seed pods as a snack in the garden. I just took this picture, it’s December 15 and we have had some very cold weather yet the mallow is still alive. I’m interested in selecting for larger seed pods, everything else is good. Wondering if there is anyone else working on this?
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I have been most focused on Hibiscus moscheutos, one of the rose mallows, because it grows wild here. But I’ve also been trying to add other Malvaceae to my garden. The mallow family seems like it deserves more promotion as a source of food crops.
This is where I’ve written about my work with native rose mallows: Rose mallow - hibiscus moscheutos - perennial flowers - okra and spinach too?
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Thanks for the reply.
I read through your linked thread and found it very interesting as much as I could understand. I know very little about botany but would like to learn. Will read it again when I can study it more carefully.
I have no idea what specific type of mallow I have growing here but would be happy to share seeds. I’ve never tried saving seeds from the mallow but I’m sure there’s some out there. As I mentioned previously I spread it by pulling up the whole plant and mulching with it.
I’m guessing it was brought in through horse manure as the previous residents kept horses and it loves growing where I have added more manure.
I just now went out and took a photo of some still actively growing inside a high tunnel even though it’s getting well below freezing at night. There is a little seed pod centered in the photo.
Here is another photo of some growing outside in an area that has had some minor soil improvement years ago but not irrigated. It is somewhat sheltered from the wind by structures so not totally out in the open. I’m just amazed by it’s ability to survive heat and drought and still grow when its getting frosted every night!
It looks to me like you have common mallow (Malva sylvestris). Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
I have some common mallow currently volunteering in my apple orchard. Temperatures are regularly dropping below 20 degrees Fahrenheit, and the mallow is perfectly happy to keep growing!
Yes as far as I know it’s common mallow just from what I saw on Google search but I didn’t know if it had some local variations.
I’m curious to know what your other growing conditions are like. I have other plants that can tolerate sub freezing but none I can think of that can also manage over 100 F during a drought with no clouds, no shelter from the sun, in compacted silty dirt and after all that doesn’t taste bitter! 
Thanks for the reply!
I live in Utah, and your profile says Montana – is that right? So we probably have similar summers, and you probably have colder winters. I get 18 inches of rain a year, most of it in the winter as snow, and I’m in zone 7b.
My summers are very similar to what you described – 90-100 degrees Fahrenheit with almost no rain, except for one week in August (when we get a deluge). No clouds, in soil that is pure sand until you get a foot down, and then it’s pure rocks. No clay at all, nothing to hold soil moisture in. “Full sun” plants tend to do much better in partial shade. I have decided to interpret that as an invitation to plant more fruit trees. 
Common mallow does well in our summers, although it mostly only volunteers in irrigated spaces (like lawns). I can’t remember whether it stays green all winter, or only for most of it – I’ll keep an eye on the one in my orchard and see!
I have found hollyhocks to be even more drought tolerant (they’ll volunteer in completely dry spaces, which common mallow doesn’t), plus they’re huge and therefore produce more food to eat. 
Apparently they’re hardy to zone 3, occasionally as far as zone 2.
For me, hollyhocks sprout in fall and grow actively and lushing all winter, and then flower for most of the summer, and start to die off just as the seeds for next year’s hollyhocks are germinating in preparation for next year’s plants. They’re winter annuals, but you could easily mistake them for evergreen perennials, because they self-sow so easily and grow all year round.
Winter perennials are great for my climate, too. There are lots of bulbs that grow actively through the winter, flower in spring, and go dormant for the summer. Many are just ornamental, but some are edible! For an edible ornamental garden in a climate that’s wet in the winter and dry in the summer, I recommend the drought tolerant mallows (common mallow, hollyhock, okra, rose of sharon, etc.), alliums (garlic, onions, chives, etc.), carrots (some varieties, like Chocolate Dara, were bred to be pretty as well as tasty), tulips (yes, they’re edible! 
), the Calochortus genus (sego lily and mariposa lily), and the Claytonia genus (spring beauty and miner’s lettuce).
Oh, and everlasting pea (Lathyrus latifolius) seems to do ridiculously well here. I used to consider it an obnoxious weed, but then I found out it’s edible, so now I’m happy to have it. Apparently it’s hardy to zone 3. The seeds are poisonous raw, but they’re edible if they’re well-cooked – they can cause lathyrism if you eat a very large quantity of them over a long period of time, so don’t do that, but otherwise, they should be safe to eat cooked every so often. The flowers and young leaves are edible raw, and they’re tasty – the leaves taste like peas, and the flowers taste like peas with a flowery aftertaste. I really like them. Keep an eye out for anything in the Lathyrus genus that grows as a weed around you – there are several edible species that are quite tasty and native to our climate, so it’s well-worth watching for them.
You might give fireweed (Chamaenerion angustifolium) a try, too. I just read about it in a foraging book a few days ago, so it’s a new addition to my list of species to try. It looks very promising; it’s a highly drought tolerant zone 2 perennial that apparently has flowers that taste delicious and stems that taste like asparagus.
Speaking of which, if you want ideas of plants you can try that are well-suited to your climate, I strongly recommend you pick up a bunch of books on foraging and look for tasty plants that are native to around where you live. Even if you can’t find wild populations near you, you can go online to buy seeds (or collect seeds from your own wild edibles and initiate swaps with other people around here who have found seeds of wild edibles you’re interested in 
), and they will probably do well.
I swap with other people on here a lot, and I have been thrilled to receive seeds from fellower gardeners who like foraging from particularly delicious loquat trees, particularly excellent nannyberry bushes, etc. As for me, I recently found some thornless hawthorn trees with tasty fruit, and have been saving those seeds to share.
And yes, that is in fact a subtle hint – feel free to hit me up for a trade.
Two foraging books you may want to check out:
This book rocks my socks off. Everything Samuel Thayer writes is great.
This book might be even better for you, because even though it’s less comprehensive, the author lives in Montana. I found it to be a very good foraging book.
And for more ideas of species I’m planning to try next year, I refer you to this post.
Wonderful information!
Yes Montana but important to remember it’s south central, not at all like the rocky mountain region. Most people picture Bozeman when they think of Montana. This is the borderland between the mountains and the northern great plains. Extreme fluctuating weather. It’s one of those things it’s pretty much impossible to imagine if you’ve never been there. The fluctuating conditions make it hard for standard plants like fruit trees, to survive. Adaptation is not really optional here.
In some ways it can be good for humans who can put a coat on or off because there can be quite warm spells in winter, but hard for trees to understand when it’s time to come out of dormancy and such.
I have 2 unheated greenhouses now which are turning out to be very useful in sort of tempering the fluctuating weather and sheltering from the wind.
Yes I’d be very interested to hear how your mallow handles summer conditions.
Yes I’m very interested in growing hollyhocks. I think it might have been your post I was reading about the flowers being edible. I ordered some seeds including the dark purple after reading the thread.
Wondering if you are having issues with grasshoppers? My understanding is they are one of the most difficult critters for plants to adapt to. I did have some things they didn’t eat last summer and some that got eaten but bounced back. I’m planning to pay more attention to what survives this year. Usually it’s easier to notice what got wiped out!
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We have loads of grasshoppers, especially in late fall. They’re everywhere.
I saw a very interesting video online several years ago that explained what’s up with different insects. Apparently different types of insects are interested in eating plants, depending on how healthy the plants are, and the health of the plant can be measured by the brix in its leaves. Here are my notes after watching that video!
Different insects get interested in the plants at different times.
Below 6 brix: Aphids and scale insects. They lose interest at 6-8 brix.
Below 7 brix: Sucking insects. They lose interest at 7-9 brix.
Below 9 brix: Chewing insects. This includes caterpillars. They lose interest at 9-11 brix.
Below 10 brix: Grasshoppers and locusts. Beetles, too. They lose interest at 10-12+ brix.
At above 12 brix, insects can no longer digest your plant, and they will leave it alone. Unfortunately, animal pests such as moles, rodents, and deer will be very excited to eat it then.
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Sounds like Texas weather, probably with lower high and low temps!
We have the same issues in winter, with extreme temp shifts which cause sun scald and radial shake.
Yes, very interesting about the brix. I just heard about this a few months ago. Before that I had assumed grasshoppers ate whatever was in their path. I began to notice last summer that they did somewhat pick and choose.
I have an edible crabapple that has been struggling to survive for several years while others nearby didn’t make it at all. Before the grasshoppers came last summer it looked like a Charlie Brown Christmas tree with maybe 20 leaves or so and about 5 ft tall, a few inches circumference.
Just to give a little more context, we have very fine silt here rather than the sand you describe. It is not quite clay but becomes very hard and compacted when it dries out. We have been getting only 10 inches total precipitation so it gets very dry. In places where the soil is undisturbed and not overgrazed, it doesn’t dry out as easily and there are grasses that are adapted and able to thrive. Before settlement this area was teeming with grazers and their predators including grizzly bears and lions.
I had been letting the grasses grow in the area where this tree was located. But I had also been listening to videos where Dr Elaine talked about the microbiome and one day last summer I happened to hear her say to get the grasses out of your orchard even if you have to use cardboard to make it happen. I had already added some wood mulch but it was still thick with grass. So I surrounded the lone crabapple with thick cardboard and held it down with big rocks. Then made sure it was well watered. The grasshoppers came and I shook them off the tree several times a day. When the hoppers started to diminish there were maybe 10 partial leaves left. The most incredible thing happened! Leaves grew back but more than it had ever had before. Big beautiful green leaves, all this within one season! Can’t wait to see what happens this summer.
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Yes it is similar to Texas in many ways. We can reach almost the same high temps but for far less days per year. And yes, much lower winter lows. Also our summer nights stay much cooler, never above 75 for a summer low and low humidity.
I always try to tell people how hot it gets here out in the sun and they think I’ve just forgotten what it feels like to live down south and have adapted myself.
I think it’s a combination of higher elevation, over 3,000 ft, and usually little pollution that blocks the sun’s rays. Today was about 45 F but very sunny. I was very comfortable outside in a T-shirt. But as soon as the sun started setting it was time for a heavy coat.
In the heat of summer I try to rise with the sun if possible. By 10:30 am I’m getting toasted out in the sun but it’s still ok in the shade. By noon I have to get somewhere air conditioned. The sun doesn’t set until after bedtime but sometimes I sleep outside so I still get to enjoy a bit of summer evening.
Yes we definitely get the tree splitting issues you mentioned. I’ve started shifting over to fruiting shrubs on their own roots. They don’t seem to be as bothered and can grow back if necessary. Service berry has been fruiting reliably and tastes really good I think.
Have you tried painting the tree trunks white? Also I’ve been reconsidering where to place trees. I have an area that is shaded in winter but gets summer sun. Thinking that might help keep the sap from rising too early.
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That would be nice!
Yes I have done this but it does not seem to work as well as the tree paper wrap or some type of temporary shading.
Most of the time here I think it is just the surface temps more than the actual sap rising. (For most well adapted plants)
We have had some record cold winters the last few years and pretty wild temp swings. Below freezing to over 75 within 24hrs.
Although this year we haven’t even had a freeze yet! I still have some okra and pigeon peas living.
Yes that is a dramatic swing! I have heard about the cold spells with power outages and such you all have had. We are prepared for it here with pipes buried 4 feet and so on. I can see how that would cause a lot of problems where its not expected.
I haven’t tried paper wrapping. Will see if I can find some. I have tried the plastic trunk covers but find the bugs like living up in there.
Would be nice to be able to grow some of those plants you have down there. I’m still learning how to utilize my high tunnels. I have low tunnels inside the high tunnels and cover them with heavy blankets every night but in return for the effort I have beets and kale and have just planted some claytonia.
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Yes they had some major issues South/Central TX, places like Austin it was crazy. Luckily I am in North Texas so while it was still some record setting weather we are used to regular freezes.
The paper tree wrap stays loose and allows for lot more air flow, I have not seen bug or rot issues with it and it is recommended by many good arborists and nurserymen.
Another thing I have done is to make a “wall” with shade cloth between two posts on the south and/or west side of the tree. It works really well and you can even gradually replace it with lighter grade shade cloth as the tree matures and acclimates. Only problem with that is it temporarily takes up space and does not look as nice so certain living situations may not allow for it.
Excellent suggestions, thanks!
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I haven’t noticed anybody post the video that you referenced about Brix and insect herbivory, so here it is in case anybody wants to watch/listen. I think it is a game changer:
And a more recent one with Elaine Ingham:
Have these been included in the interesting video dump thread? @Hugo
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Ooh, nifty info. Why did Dr. Elaine say to get the grasses out of your orchard? Is it the usual reason I hear (because they compete with the trees for water), or are there other reasons?
I’ve covered my orchard in cardboard and a foot of wood chips, and my apple trees seemed very happy, even though I only gave about a gallon of water to each tree once a month, and my summers are very hot and very dry. I pulled out the occasional bindweed and grass that kept trying to come in. I let the common mallow that volunteered stay. There was also a melon plant that sprawled in between some of the apple trees; I gave it about a gallon of water once a month, too, and it gave me ten fruits.
I’m thinking an apple orchard with a deep layer of wood chips and cucurbit vines sprawling through it makes a good combination – they seem to do well with the same growing conditions and not compete much. I’m gonna try that again.